WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 11:58:48 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:12.000 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flashcast, which will be right with you as soon as our Apple Vision Pro has finished booting up. 2 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:14.160 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:16.140 I'm Peter September. 4 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:17.760 I'm Simon October. 5 00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:19.440 And I'm Todd. 6 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:21.480 Just Todd. 7 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:22.679 Just Todd. 8 00:00:22.739 --> 00:00:28.440 Those things are gonna start eating you all in alphabetical order. can just see it happening. 9 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.659 We deserve it. get me 1st because of my last name. 10 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:41.460 But if you change your last name, Todd, to like Zod or something, you last Gothic Todd. 11 00:00:42.539 --> 00:00:44.100 All right. 12 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:46.439 So how are our general opinions of this one? 13 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:51.240 There seems to have been sort of a bit divisive in fandom, like, basically all of them so far. 14 00:00:51.299 --> 00:01:03.840 I have to say that I had fun, although I also have to admit that it took me much longer than I think it probably ought to have to work out what on earth was going on. 15 00:01:03.899 --> 00:01:06.599 But we will get to that a little bit later. 16 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:09.420 What did you think of it, Simon? 17 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.400 I quite liked it. 18 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:13.739 I loved the visual style. 19 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:20.939 I loved the way the whole thing or most of it was told through basically a series of screens in front of Lindy in total social media world. 20 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:24.599 So I was really on board with just doing something differently. 21 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:34.560 And I know there are other comments which are made in the episode, but I think the commentary about social media and our social media bubble is, I think, a very, very powerful and relevant one. 22 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:36.180 What do you think, Peter? 23 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.159 Hmm, Dot and bubble. 24 00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:41.640 Sadly, it wasn't the EastEnders abfab crossover that I've been waiting for. 25 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:44.280 I did enjoy it. 26 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:46.739 The episode was entertaining for the most part. 27 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:48.299 It had some nice ideas in it. 28 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:55.560 I like when Doctor Who goes a bit out there without being open quote bonkers, close quote. 29 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:57.840 I like the macrterra, I like gridlock. 30 00:01:57.900 --> 00:01:59.760 Um, I love the Sunmakers. 31 00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:01.200 I adore the happiness patrol. 32 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:05.400 This is very much in their cast, and so I'm genetically predisposed to like this. 33 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:08.580 And I did, in some ways, not in all ways. 34 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.379 And Todd. 35 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:15.900 I didn't think I was going to like it, but as it went along, I liked it more and more. 36 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:24.960 And as Simon said, the visual, I love the visuals, like all the colours, the bright colours, the bright colours, the light blue and the yellow and that. 37 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:26.939 Yeah, I like that palette. 38 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.539 I, um, yeah, it's all it's all pastels, isn't it? 39 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:49.199 It's really very well done because it is kind of funny seeing, like those sort of weird Doctor Who's are kind of associated with the 60s and maybe gridlock, maybe the end of the world sort of, but it's kind of the 1st time that we've seen anything quite as weird as the happiness patrol. 40 00:02:49.259 --> 00:02:53.280 Or I was also thinking Paradise Towers as well. 41 00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:59.219 You know, where characters have their own kind of dialect, their way of speaking, they have a weird way of being named. 42 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:18.360 And now seeing that done now with sort of modern production sensibilities, even just that opening scene in Lindy's flat, where her flat looks amazing, and then you look out the window and you see, you know, all of these, like the bubble keeps recurring as part of a design element, the whole place is in a bubble. 43 00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:24.000 But there's, you know, round portholes round things out the window, all of the windows around. 44 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.300 Like, everything is kind of of a piece, I think. 45 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:28.919 And it looks really good. 46 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:34.259 Apparently, a lot of the location stuff was at the University of Swansea, which is kind of hilarious. 47 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:37.319 Um, but I just think it looked... just apt. 48 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.379 But I just think it looked amazing. 49 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.139 I mean, it really did look quite extraordinary. 50 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:50.460 What I what I feared was that it was just going to be a Aunt Gen Z dumb with their phones and stuff. 51 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.860 And I thought, that would be so boring. 52 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:54.479 That would be so boring. 53 00:03:54.539 --> 00:04:01.979 And it looks like it's going to be that and then it takes a kind of sharp turn, which I thought was pretty interesting. 54 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.740 So how do we feel that satire landed? 55 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:06.719 I thought it was kind of obvious. 56 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:08.879 It's like a lot of this season. 57 00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:10.199 It's been fairly obvious. 58 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:11.400 It was low hanging fruits. 59 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:12.659 I did enjoy it. 60 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.360 It didn't feel that the story was developed. 61 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:24.060 It was developed one step away from our earth here and what we live and live in society, which is what talk to has always done. 62 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:31.259 I felt it could have been taken another step further so that this satire wasn't quite so on the nose, but I did enjoy it. 63 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:33.480 Simon? 64 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:35.939 Yeah, I mean, I'd agree with that sentiment. 65 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:45.240 I mean, it's subtlety is not generally one of RTD strong points, but then, you know, often it is in the program more broadly anyway, I'll admit to that. 66 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:52.379 But I suppose because I go in with those expectations, I was able to enjoy it. 67 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:57.360 And I think that I think it's able to satire multiple things at once and comment on multiple things at once. 68 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:06.600 And I think I think there is a little bit of the gen Z, uh, you know, don't like to turn up to work because they don't feel like, you know, that kind of whole kind of cliche that, that, that we have. 69 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:09.180 I think that's a thing too and why not? 70 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:21.420 I think it's as much that the satire is as much about having having people, you know, living in your bubble and not necessarily even a social media bubble, but like the bubble that we all are kind of living in. 71 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:31.199 And I know there are other reasons for the rejection of the doctor and Millie, but nevertheless, I think it's also about the fact that you're not part of our tribe, so you don't belong with us. 72 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:40.019 So I think, I think there are actually, surprisingly, there are actually a lot more things going on in this than you think there are when you've, you know, 5 or 10 minutes in. 73 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:50.699 What I appreciated about it was the commentary on a generational bubble as well, because more and more, you know, we saw it in things like the Brexit vote in the UK, we see it in politics all the time now. 74 00:05:50.759 --> 00:06:02.519 There's an incredible generational gap between how young people think that they're being served by society and politics and how older people were and how they think about that together. 75 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:08.699 And it's creating a lot of friction between generations which never existed maybe 30 years ago. 76 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.220 So I appreciated that commentary. 77 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.879 Although it's interesting there, Peter, because the political thing. 78 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:19.560 I mean, they're not, these guys are not resentful of their parents. 79 00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:22.439 Their parents have paid for them to be in this place. 80 00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:27.420 It is showing the generational bubble in one regard, but not in a kind of a divisive way. 81 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:37.860 We's not actually saying, well, you know, we're on this side, and the old people don't know what they're talking about, and they're over that side, which I think probably would have more gone in that direction. if that's what they were wanting to do. 82 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.399 Well, I was one of the elements of the satire that I actually thought worked. 83 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:56.160 I didn't want that addressed on the nosed, but the fact that they'd kind of segregated the old and the young people and then the young people lived in their social media bubble while not being able to afford their own round windowed flats because their parents had to provide it for them because they had the money. 84 00:06:56.220 --> 00:07:02.459 And then having the older generation actually eaten by slugs just leaving the younger generation defender for themselves. 85 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:04.079 That was satire that I was on board with. 86 00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:09.540 Yeah, so I think old people have plagued our fragile earth for far too long. 87 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:11.160 Todd. 88 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:22.920 My husband likes to watch reality television shows, and some of them are quite good, and others, I've sat through like Paris in love with Paris Hilton. 89 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:26.519 And I have to say, like, I mean, did she get eaten by a slug? 90 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:29.759 Well, no. wishing she would be. 91 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.199 Well, yes, I sat there at times going, this woman is so vacuous. 92 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:39.000 And then she would show glimpses, actually, of humanity, and you actually think there's more there. 93 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:45.000 And then in a 2nd she suddenly would do something which I go, well, no, it's not there at all. 94 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:48.000 And she's got all these followers for unknown reasons. 95 00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:53.279 So the 1st 10 minutes for me was like, I'm watching some sort of parody of that happening. 96 00:07:53.339 --> 00:07:54.899 I'm going, I don't want to know these people. 97 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:55.920 I don't want to know this. 98 00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:56.939 Please just let it end. 99 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.980 So, and rewatching it today. 100 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:09.839 It was actually quite interesting watching it from that perspective, really, but I just want to say Paris Hilton is not racist in case anybody's thinking that she actually isn't, but that we know of. 101 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:13.079 It's just, I just thought it was a satire of that he was obviously watched her show. 102 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:15.120 Todd, I'm interested. 103 00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:17.699 Did Ash watch it with you and what did he think? 104 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:21.300 Um, he didn't really like it that much. 105 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:21.899 No. 106 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.720 Like, um, yeah, it wasn't for him. 107 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:30.720 He said it wasn't, he didn't like her in particular, but we did both laugh when she walked into that poll. 108 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:31.980 Let's just... 109 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:36.120 Talk about things that are done unsubtly, yeah. 110 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:37.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 111 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.600 Well that's another lift from Moffat, I think. 112 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.159 RTD's doing a lot of that. 113 00:08:41.220 --> 00:08:47.759 I certainly think the discovery that people are being eaten alphabetically is pure Moffat. 114 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.519 And apparently this will... 115 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.100 Certainly moth at if it's Moth at and Davies in the same program. 116 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:54.360 Well, I think that's it. 117 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:57.899 And they are in the same room because I think this is pitched. 118 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:14.399 This was originally pitched by Davey's tomb Moffat during the Moffat era and the Moffat was involved in the, you know, talking conversations, developing it now that it's actually kind of, you know, just technically possible to actually achieve it in a satisfactory way. 119 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:16.080 I was thinking, Todd. 120 00:09:16.139 --> 00:09:19.379 In fact, Ruby notices exactly that thing. 121 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.620 Doesn't she say this is like Planet Love Island or something? 122 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:36.600 Like she thinks that this is exactly like one of those reality TV shows where everyone has their followers and everyone's sort of being lovely and being influencers and talking about their clothes and all of that sort of thing. 123 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:43.740 Um, so, so the thing, the thing that I didn't spot straight away is that everyone's white. 124 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:51.899 And that is something that obviously other people noticed immediately. 125 00:09:51.960 --> 00:10:01.259 And I have to, in my defence, say at least on this week's episode of Untitled Star Trek project, I bitch about how white everyone is in the car. 126 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.240 So sometimes that's something I notice. 127 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:04.559 I didn't notice it this time. 128 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:09.000 I was a little bit distracted, possibly by just how queer everyone looked. 129 00:10:09.059 --> 00:10:17.879 But nevertheless, you know, there's a way in which the episode critiques you, because the 2nd watch through. 130 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:27.299 Obviously, you see that Lindy is mean to both Ruby and the doctor, but she is mean to them in a different way. 131 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:33.659 When the doctrine and Ruby appear in the group chat. 132 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:38.039 All of these sort of people who are just, you know, they're just kind of featured actors. 133 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:40.620 They're talking, they only get a few lines each episode. 134 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:41.340 Do you know what I mean? 135 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:45.000 They'd have been in for a couple of hours just shooting against a wall sort of thing. 136 00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:55.440 But they're all desperately doing their disgusted acting when the doctor speaks and, you know, being discussed at being in the same group, chatters him and all of that's sort of quite clear. 137 00:10:55.500 --> 00:11:06.000 And then, of course, we get Lindy meeting a white version of the doctor, who she is much nicer to up until the point where she obviously gets him killed. 138 00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:13.559 But she reacts much better to white Doctor Who than she does to uh, than she does to our doctor. 139 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:22.259 No, no, but the reason she possibly, but the reason she reacts so positively to Ricky September is because of the fact that she is following him, she is a fan of his. 140 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:27.419 So he is already someone who her group has decided is fabulous and acceptable. 141 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:29.519 And just going back on the race thing. 142 00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:45.179 It's funny because I, I, well, sometimes when I'm watching shows like, well, any show, really, and I noticed something like that, and about halfway through, I realised that, oh, everyone's actually white in this, and my brain 1st, the 1st thing my brain goes to is that was a strange mistake that they've made. 143 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:46.139 Do you know what I mean? 144 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:52.440 I just immediately think it's a production mistake and they've suddenly gotten to the editing and going, oh my gosh, we haven't actually gotten any people of colour in this. 145 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:59.700 But, and then it's only kind of at the end that I realised, oh, actually, no, it's actually, they're actually making a point. 146 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:01.980 But as I said before, I don't think it's just about race. 147 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:17.940 It's also about who part of the disgust that she has with at the doctor and because it is also with Millie as well, is because they are not, they haven't been pre-approved effectively to be part of their group. 148 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:21.299 I think it works on a racial level and also works on that other level too. 149 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:21.659 Sure. 150 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:23.340 And you're not allowed to be one of us. 151 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.559 You're not allowed to be one of us. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. 152 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:34.440 And she is dismissive of Ruby, but when the doctor appears 1st on her screen, he's surrounded by like warnings and stuff in a way that Ruby Sunday isn't. 153 00:12:34.500 --> 00:12:36.299 She blocks him immediately. 154 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.600 When the next black guy turns up. 155 00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:42.600 She just thinks it's another black guy because they all look the same. 156 00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:44.879 I mean, she says all of this sort of stuff. 157 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.259 It is all very clearly there. 158 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:57.600 And I do think that the, um, the Ricky September stuff is played exactly like the doctor meeting a companion for the 1st time with that handholding, the, I'm going to save you. 159 00:12:57.659 --> 00:12:58.740 I'll get you out of this. 160 00:12:58.799 --> 00:12:59.580 All of that stuff. 161 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:00.840 He's a doctor. 162 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:02.879 And she reacts well to this doctor. 163 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:11.399 And, you know, like, I think, yes, she knows him and fancies him and stuff like that, but also, I think, you know, within the story. 164 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.600 There's a very clear reason why he's portrayed like that, I think. 165 00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:32.940 I also thought there was an interesting commentary there on social media followers, relationship with the people that they follow, and that all that they, all that you get when you have the big fandom who follows a celebrity on TikTok or whatever, is they get what is given to them to be digested. 166 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:46.200 And you get this feeling that if ever they met in real life and they didn't live up to this, um, hopelessly inflated view of what they were, um, that the fandom could turn on them in an instant. 167 00:13:46.259 --> 00:14:01.379 And I kind of, I got that from this episode that, you know, love and hate in social media is such a finely balanced thing that it's very easy to be cancelled for just not being what someone ideally expects you to be. 168 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.019 Yes, and the judgement is summarial. 169 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:05.340 It's so fast, it just happens. 170 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.419 Yes, and it's gone from 100% love to 100% hate gone. 171 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:18.000 But when he turns out to be quite different from what she expected with all of his, you know, like I can walk and I read books and, you know, I know about history and stuff. 172 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:19.019 That's not the thing. 173 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.460 I can do all that. 174 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.559 Yeah, I can sometimes do it. 175 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:27.960 Um, but, but, um, it's, it's when her life is threatened. 176 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:36.419 You know, the 2nd her life is threatened, she is such a piece of work, she is such an absolutely appalling person that she just throws him to the walls immediately. 177 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.539 And so I don't think he's cancelled in any kind of sense. 178 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.639 It's just that she is so awful. 179 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:45.539 She's so fabulously horrible as a person. 180 00:14:45.840 --> 00:15:02.820 Did you find, though, that when I was waiting for the moment, like, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes in, you're waiting for her to actually get a grip and start to do what Millie's saying and start to take the doctor away and not just completely be fulfall to pieces. 181 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:07.679 And then it took me a while to realise, oh, actually, no, she's actually never going to get a grip. 182 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:18.840 That's the whole point is she's just she's just totally hopeless at everything and even, you know, can't even walk and that kind of crap, which is probably a bit over the top, but, you know, I get the point that's trying to be made. 183 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:21.419 Having watched Paris in love. 184 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:23.279 That's not too far from reality. 185 00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:27.059 I mean, she can do I'm out of touch. 186 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:32.279 Obviously walk, but you know, there's other things which I kind of think, 0 my goodness, didn't your mother ever teach you how to do that? 187 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:33.539 Even her husband says that. 188 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:46.620 I thought she was, I sucked in because I actually thought every, oh, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt every, every time she did something hopeless and then, oh no, she's having a rethink, she'll get there in the end, she'll get there in the end. 189 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:51.480 I've written off Ricky as one of those foolish people on the in the bubble. 190 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:54.899 And so it was very refreshing when he came into it and thought, oh, wonderful. 191 00:15:54.960 --> 00:16:02.100 And now she'll get a grip, but she was just a truly awful person. unbelievable. 192 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:08.639 That moment where she just says, oh, his last name's Coombs or something is just so brutal. 193 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:16.320 She's really, really awful in every way, and she is horrible to Ruby, but she's really, really quite horrible to the doctor. 194 00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:17.820 Just awful. 195 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:31.019 Um, and it is that sort of thing where you're kind of one of the things that the episode does, I think, is that her poor behaviour is the sort of thing that we could just sort of dismiss. 196 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:35.639 But I think there were people watching this and I've, you know, gone online and stuff. 197 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:39.600 People watching this kind of going, oh yeah, she's super racist. 198 00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:51.419 Like almost immediately, because it's that kind of that just the sort of things that she says are the sort of things that people kind of encounter on a regular basis. 199 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.440 And so what we regarded as sort of, you know, this is a horrible person. 200 00:16:55.500 --> 00:17:03.899 And, you know, like I don't think anyone, anyone watching it wasn't enjoying the spectacle of all of these white people being eaten by slugs. you know what I mean? 201 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:07.200 even if we weren't thinking of it in those terms. 202 00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:15.539 But I think that some people had a head start in recognising kind of what what sort of behaviour was being depicted from Lindy, I think. 203 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.480 White people being eaten by slugs. 204 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.359 It's like the sequel to Frontios, we know that... 205 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.599 Or potentially Arc in Spain. 206 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:30.539 I was so hoping they were going to be tractators or whatever the hell, what's... 207 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:31.319 What's messed up? 208 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.059 Gastropol, yes. 209 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.220 I thought I bet they're going to be gastropods. 210 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:36.660 They're really funny too. 211 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.559 Aren't they wonderful? 212 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:47.819 Like, the thing where she leaps across. at the guy next to her in the office and he's got the tartan trousers that are kind of sticking out of this thing. 213 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.339 The production team called the man traps. 214 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.599 Apparently. 215 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:52.559 Right. 216 00:17:52.619 --> 00:18:00.660 I will say that it is a nod to the classic ear of the program that you do have these very slow moving things, which people kind of seem incapable of getting away from. 217 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:12.420 And in fact, and in fact, when they've been, when they've been slightly touched by them, they can't even kind of back away, they kind of, you know, it's like dealing with a monotra or something like the way they, they kind of... 218 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.059 They kind of allow themselves. 219 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:20.400 It's that kind of acting where you've got to pretend that you're actually being overwhelmed by this piece of CGI. 220 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.759 Yes, that telephone cord is wrapping around you, not the other way around. 221 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:25.500 Yes, exactly. 222 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.799 By the modern standards. 223 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.200 I don't feel that they're overly successful, I confess. 224 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.059 I thought they were wonderful. 225 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:34.019 Yeah, yeah. 226 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:36.180 People can't walk away from them because they can't walk. 227 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.140 Do you know what I mean? 228 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.380 Like they're absolutely paddle to the slaughter when it comes to this. 229 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.140 I think, you know, they're very perfunctory. 230 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:50.339 It is that thing, you know, your dot has been watching you all for so long that it just hates you and it designs to conjure up a whole bunch of slugs. 231 00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:54.960 So I wonders why the dot doesn't just like pulverise your head like it goes to me. 232 00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:57.359 Yeah, given that it can fly right into your head. 233 00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:00.299 It's right in front of your head and it's just... 234 00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:03.119 It didn't think of that till later as my aggressive dot. 235 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:06.240 Well, it's a bit of a red herring, really. 236 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:07.859 Yeah, it's a red herring. 237 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:13.799 Yeah, because like I thought, oh, they've invaded and it's the slow invasion of the slugs or whatever and they don't seem because they're in the dots. 238 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.559 So it sends you off on a different path, depending on where you're looking. 239 00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:25.319 Yeah, you're already given the idea that somehow they've breached the thing and they're from the outside is kind of, I think, you know, what you're meant to think. 240 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:32.400 You don't think it's a commentary on, you know, the fact that the dots, the dots been listening to you and decided that it doesn't like you. 241 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:38.940 It's no commentary on Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or something deciding that they don't like, everyone who uses their platforms. 242 00:19:39.000 --> 00:20:02.519 Well, do you know, one of the things is, one of the things that I think about social media is that there's a big kind of social media, moral panic at the moment about social media being bad for children and we have, you know, the federal government here wanting to ban social media for people under 16 instead of perhaps suggesting that people could do some parenting for a change. 243 00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:15.539 And I think that that is a moral panic, and I think that the danger posed by social media isn't that you're going to, you know, be contacted by a paedophile. 244 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:21.359 It isn't that you're going to forget how to walk and you're going to bump into things because you're so wrapped up in your phone. 245 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:37.079 The danger is the social media algorithms, that foreground, just alt right opinions, that you're watching a video about Doctor Who, and the next video that YouTube suggests is, and here's what a Nazi thing's about, Doctor Who. 246 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:48.240 And I think that children being radicalised online by that sort of material is a much more present danger and kind of that's what we have. 247 00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:58.079 You've got a social bubble that Lindy belongs to, that consists entirely of white people who get annoyed if a black person turns up and starts talking to them. 248 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:07.500 So I think that's there, I think, as an idea, you know, the particular bubble that's portrayed here is that sort of bubble. 249 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:12.299 Yeah, I mean, it's not the, it's not the social media per se. 250 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:37.079 It's the way the algorithms work now, which is, is, is, but also has made it from, I mean, we're getting off topic here, but from my point of view, with social media, how much, how less I interact with it, and partly because people are interacting with me less, because of course, you scroll through Facebook or Twitter, and it's just all these other stuff, rather than it being what it used to be, which is just basically a reverse timeline of what whoever's posted, whatever in, in, from present, back into the distant past, you know. 251 00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:39.960 And so it's been because the content's being curated for us. 252 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:43.799 And I don't think it's necessarily because they want to turn us all into neo-Nazis. 253 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:49.920 It's because they know that that video of the Nazi reaction, Doctor Who, whatever it is, is going to get a reaction out of us that's going to get more engagement. 254 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.200 So it's not an actual ideological thing. 255 00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:55.440 It's actually purely driven by how many clicks, how many interactions will this get? 256 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.019 Anyway, that's a very long topic for a different time. 257 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.880 Well, for flight through entirety. 258 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:10.380 It's like when you go onto YouTube and you watch like a travel video, you know, someone who does plane journeys and reports back on what the soft product is like and all that kind of thing. 259 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:21.900 They will always head it up with my my really nasty review of this terrible product and you'll see that it gets 10 times the views of anything else. 260 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.359 And so people do it all the time, even when it's not that. 261 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:25.859 Yeah, yeah. 262 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:33.059 All right, let's talk about the fact that we have our 2nd Dr. Light episode in a row. 263 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:50.460 This is not quite as light as last week, and clearly they did what they did in blink, which is just have the doctor stand against a wall and then they could film him at one camera angle and get a lot of material in in a very short amount of time and then just give him more. 264 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:51.599 And he's actually won a scene. 265 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:52.500 Yeah, yeah. 266 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.039 Yeah. 267 00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:59.460 I do think it was unfortunate that 25% of Shooty's 1st season is Dr. Light. 268 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:01.680 I understand completely the reasons for this. 269 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:04.319 It's just a shame that they couldn't scheduled their way out of it. 270 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:05.519 Exactly. 271 00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:07.500 I think that's very unfortunate. 272 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.119 But look, I think it works. 273 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.859 Look, any of these episodes are perfectly fine. 274 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.220 It's just a shame that you've got them consecutively. 275 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:23.579 And I mean, even going back to Boom, which I know is not a Dr. Light episode, obviously, but in another way, it's a, let's just have shooty in this one set. 276 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:26.339 And do the whole thing. 277 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:32.099 And so now looking at that retrospectively, it's quite clearly part of that broader problem that they had. 278 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.059 Look, I think that, yeah, I totally agree with you. 279 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:40.920 I do like the fact that as the episode went on, Ruby and the doctor were there more and more. 280 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:49.079 So it's sort of built towards the end, which is probably why I liked it more as it went along as they were really interacting and being in the space with, with, with Findy. 281 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.680 So, um, yeah, totally understand why they had to do it. 282 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:58.980 I've heard it said that it wouldn't be such a big deal if this was like a 13 episode season, but if there's any eight. 283 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:00.299 That's a little bit unfortunate. 284 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:00.779 Sorry, Nathan. 285 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:01.559 No, no, I agree. 286 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:11.640 I think, Eric, friend of the podcast, Eric Stadnick, said that one of the features of the previous Russell seasons is that they're actually very carefully done. 287 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.599 They're carefully organised. 288 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:16.740 You have, you know, a sort of lighter episode on Earth in the present day. 289 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.599 You go to the past, you go to the future. 290 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:23.099 You have a two-parter with a returning monster that's generally light. 291 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.779 You have one or 2 things. 292 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.359 You have the darker two-parter towards the end. 293 00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:28.559 Do you know what I mean? 294 00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:38.460 Like every season is sort of constructed in a, in a way, uh, that allows a kind of buildup and variety and all of that sort of thing. 295 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:53.279 And this where, um, you know, we've got dialogue suggesting in episode 2 or 3, depending on how you count it, in the devil's court, that Ruby's been with a doctor for 6 months, then the following episode we hear that this is her 1st alien planet. 296 00:24:53.339 --> 00:25:08.579 You know, it looks like boom was originally earlier in the schedules that something has happened, and now you have 2 consecutive episodes, where I think that perhaps it would have been less of a problem had those been separated in the running order in some way. 297 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:16.079 So something has happened here, I think, and we're not seeing the episodes in the order, they were originally intended, I think. 298 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:20.039 I mean, the flavour of Doc 2 always carries you forward. 299 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:22.319 It always compensates for the absence of the doctor. 300 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:30.420 And I think they've gotten used to during these doctor light episodes, casting an actor who's capable of leading the show in the doctor's absence. 301 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.500 So Elton in love and monsters or, of course, Sally Sparrow in Blink. 302 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.480 And I think here was another case of that. 303 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:39.599 It is just, as you say, unfortunate that we've had 2 in a row. 304 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:42.960 I feel like I was still getting to know this doctor and I don't want his absence. 305 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.119 I want him on screen front and centre. 306 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:50.579 And so when he comes back in that last scene and is front and centre and does a good job. 307 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.380 You think, yeah, this is what I wanted all along. 308 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.660 Everything else was okay, but I want this. 309 00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:56.940 Yeah, I entirely agree. 310 00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.319 Yeah. 311 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.299 What do you, what do we think of the final scene? 312 00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:04.019 Look, I think it wraps it up. 313 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:12.960 Well, it ties up, ties it all up in a good bow, what we think we've been watching, you know, have we been watching this, right? 314 00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:17.039 And so, but I like the fact that it's not completely explicit. 315 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:23.700 And I do notice out there that there are some people who haven't actually picked up on that aspect, the racial aspect of it at all. 316 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:32.940 Having said that, I still maintain that it's not just about the racial aspect and I think the reason why the doctor is crying at the end is not because his feelings have been hurt. 317 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:41.339 It's because of the fact that he feels so utterly sorry for these people who are quite evidently sailing to their deaths, whether it's in an hour or tomorrow, next week. 318 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:58.319 The point is, the sense is these people are just refusing to listen and just sailing off anyway, and he is so he is so frustrated and sad by that fact that they're letting their prejudices in all their forms completely throw out means that they throw away their future. 319 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.119 Torn. 320 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:05.339 Again, I think should he did a wonderful job in that scene, displaying a huge range of emotions. 321 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.640 But the other person who I was really very impressed with was Millie. 322 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:14.400 And I think that builds from last week where I really got to like her a lot, like really, really like her. 323 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.400 And just her reactions to him in that scene. 324 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:31.980 And even earlier when with the whole Ricky September thing, which is the most hilarious thing, when they're, you know, hands off or whatever they say, or he's hot or whatever, and then she goes very quiet and the doctor's really engaged and you look at her, she's like, oh, you know, really into it. 325 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:39.960 But again, in this scene, there's a real chemistry, I think, between them and her reaction to the doctor and how he's reacting is wonderful. 326 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:44.099 So, yeah, I really liked that last thing from both of them. 327 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:53.339 It's almost like she kind of understands what's going on before he does and like she knows what his reaction is about. 328 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:54.359 You know. 329 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:56.819 Yeah, she's realised, she's realised just before he has, I think. 330 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 331 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.839 And so she puts her hand on him and stuff and she's crying as well. 332 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.000 It's really properly good. 333 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:03.960 I think she's great. 334 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:14.700 And shooty, of course, you know, just who goes through these range for motions and there's you, the closer before he does or says anything where he's quivering, you know, like it's, it's really terribly good. 335 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.440 I think he's he's great. 336 00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:25.500 The comparison I wanted to make a 2 to that with that end with the people going off to their death is the kind of mentality you see in that film, don't look it up. 337 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:29.099 Um, with Meryl Streep as the president, we're basically there. 338 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.079 I mean, again, it's a farce. 339 00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:32.039 It's ridiculous. 340 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:40.799 But it's that thing where despite the fact that we know that this asteroid is coming to obliterate the earth, we've all just agreed that we're just going to pretend it's not happening. 341 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.559 And we're going to deny the reality of it. 342 00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:46.740 And I think there's almost it's that same commentary, I think. 343 00:28:47.279 --> 00:29:06.059 The other thing that I think Dot and Bubble does actually do quite well, and I think we've sort of all obliquely suggested it today, was around those, what you might call the sort of the casual remarks, the casual racism, because it's not, it's not like, you know, um, it's not like Lindy says, uh, right from the get go, get out of my feed, you're black. 344 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.660 It's all the other commentaries. she doesn't actually say that. 345 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:22.859 And it's fascinating and we are all 4 of us white men of a certain age who aren't used to that sort of just very casual, very, and sometimes quite subtle ways that things are expressed to you. 346 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.579 And I think actually this episode did actually make some attempt. 347 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:31.440 Maybe successfully, maybe unsuccessfully, but certainly made an attempt to demonstrate that to us. 348 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:49.140 It's also that generational kind of racism that you get where you might get someone who's 80 years old who says, I'm not a racist and would declare that and yet they just don't feel comfortable around people of different racism. they'll cross the they'll cross to the other side of the street or they'll, you know, et cetera. 349 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:54.480 Or as long as the person in question is on their best behaviour. 350 00:29:54.539 --> 00:30:00.359 It's all good, but as soon as there's one character floor or something that they don't like that opens the floodgates to everything else. 351 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:04.259 And yet this person would declare that they are not racist and everything's fine. 352 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:05.220 Exactly. 353 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:11.460 Just going back to the social media aspect with the ages because they're supposed to be, what, between 18 and 27 or something? 354 00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:14.819 17 and 27, right. 355 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:25.140 I thought it was funny, like, because we've all got their ages there, but I think the casting agent really needs to kind of think about this a bit more because if Ricky September is 27, then I'm then I'm 35. 356 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.799 Actually, 39. 357 00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:33.480 I thought I thought he was actually in that age group. 358 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.539 It was the other guy at the end with the longer hair. 359 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.119 The long hair, the one who's decided he's going to be leader. 360 00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:40.799 Looked older than that. 361 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:45.359 But I am glad that I'm 10 years younger than MVP Susan Twist. 362 00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.119 She's back. 363 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:55.019 Well, both the weathercaster and Dr. P were older than 27, but they might have been computer generated. 364 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:59.400 I think Dr. P is a computer generation, but God, there is something wrong with that man's face. 365 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:00.240 The teeth. 366 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.880 I just thought that that had... 367 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.759 He's been artificially enhanced in some form. 368 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.099 It's so great. 369 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.240 So good. 370 00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:12.119 All right, well, we do have season twist. 371 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:17.640 We have next week to look forward to, which is called Rogue, which will be exciting, which I don't think is by Russell. 372 00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:18.119 Is that right? 373 00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:18.779 That's right. 374 00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.279 Different writers. 375 00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:32.940 In fact, I actually think it's really interesting that before they do their Bridgerton episode with the strange approach to race that Bridgerton has that, like, we never knew if they were going to go there with a black doctor. 376 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.799 They went there with Martha. 377 00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:36.000 They went there with Bill. 378 00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:39.240 Were they ever going to do an episode where the doctor experienced racism? 379 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:44.519 And, you know, like if you're going to have a cast, a black actor, you know, that's a thing that you should probably do. 380 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:52.380 But it's funny that we do it in the future episode before going back to the past where I think maybe we were wondering how that would play out. 381 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.000 But has everyone seen the trailer? 382 00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:57.240 Well, I've only seen the next time, if that's what you mean. 383 00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:04.799 Yeah, so the fact that they all appear to be owls, really, probably means that the racial politics thing takes us. secondary role. 384 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:22.259 I think the racial politics thing, which is one of the reasons why I think Rosa is a bit unfortunate is because I think when you do trying to go back to tackle racism in the past, It is so horrifically awful with people being lynched, et cetera, that it's just something the show shouldn't really be touching. 385 00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:28.079 So I think it's better if you are going to do the racism thing to do it in the context of what we have done in dock and bubble and do it in this pretend future. 386 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:29.339 Do you know what I mean? 387 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:33.299 And when you do go back to the past, when you do go back to the past, you kind of just pretend it's actually not a thing. 388 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:34.140 Do you know what I mean? 389 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.880 To be our agree, because if you go back to the past, not equipped to deal with that. 390 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.140 Yeah, it's just too awful. 391 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:40.799 You can't do that. 392 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.019 Yeah, I think that there's a limit to what you can do. 393 00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:54.240 I mean, I do think that what we did with Martha and what we did with Bill, where we just had people expressing racist sentiments and either being punished for that or not being punished for it, you would be kind of wondering where all that was. 394 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.559 But yes, like the full extent of that. 395 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:02.700 It's the same reason that when Hitler turns up in the show you have to put him in a cupboard. 396 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:05.759 You, you know, the show can't quite deal with that. 397 00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:19.440 Well, it's the reason that Doctor 2 in 1967 wouldn't do Douglas Canfield's Nazi werewolf scripts because that was within the extreme living memory of people who were watching the show and you can't just make that into... 398 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:20.279 Exactly. 399 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:22.619 All right, I've got some things to plug. 400 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:38.460 I think you can listen to 500-year diary, which is our triumphant 1st season of Flight through Entirety's spinoff podcast in which we discuss various new beginnings throughout the show's history, and that's at 500-yeardiary.com. 401 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:48.420 Our next episode of Flight through Entirety is still not due until Christmas in July, July the 25th, when we will return with the return of Dr. Mysterio. 402 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:55.859 And there is, of course, untitled Star Trek Project, for those of you who are fans of Enterprise, and I know that you all are. 403 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:04.740 Our most recent episode featured a large number of white people taking over the enterprise and doing some suicide bombing with hilarious results. 404 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.980 So that's at untitled Star Trek Project.com. 405 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:09.599 All right. 406 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:15.900 So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember to be kind to the Gen Z kids in your life. 407 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.260 They've been putting up with you for such a long time. 408 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.260 No, can they be kind to me, please? 409 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.840 Yes, we're old. 410 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.039 We deserve to be nice. 411 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.159 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 412 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:30.420 Good night. 413 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.260 Bye bye. 414 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:32.400 See you soon. 415 00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:35.039 And also you, Gen Z, kids, get off my lawn.