WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-02 at 15:32:51 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.019 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and 2 00:00:04.019 --> 00:00:07.860 bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flashcast, which will 3 00:00:07.860 --> 00:00:11.279 be right with you as soon as our Apple Vision Pro has finished 4 00:00:11.279 --> 00:00:12.000 booting up. 5 00:00:12.300 --> 00:00:14.160 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:14.220 --> 00:00:16.140 I'm Peter September. 7 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:17.760 I'm Simon October. 8 00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:19.440 And I'm Todd. 9 00:00:19.500 --> 00:00:21.480 Just Todd. 10 00:00:21.539 --> 00:00:22.679 Just Todd. 11 00:00:22.739 --> 00:00:26.820 Those things are gonna start eating you all in alphabetical order 12 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:28.440 can just see it happening. 13 00:00:29.399 --> 00:00:33.659 We deserve it. get me 1st because of my last name. 14 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:39.240 But if you change your last name, Todd, to like Zod or something 15 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:41.460 you last Gothic Todd. 16 00:00:42.539 --> 00:00:44.100 All right. 17 00:00:44.159 --> 00:00:46.439 So how are our general opinions of this one? 18 00:00:46.500 --> 00:00:49.740 There seems to have been sort of a bit divisive in fandom, like 19 00:00:49.740 --> 00:00:51.240 basically all of them so far. 20 00:00:51.299 --> 00:00:56.100 I have to say that I had fun, although I also have to admit that 21 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:01.140 it took me much longer than I think it probably ought to have to 22 00:01:01.140 --> 00:01:03.840 work out what on earth was going on. 23 00:01:03.899 --> 00:01:06.599 But we will get to that a little bit later. 24 00:01:06.719 --> 00:01:09.420 What did you think of it, Simon? 25 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:11.400 I quite liked it. 26 00:01:11.459 --> 00:01:13.739 I loved the visual style. 27 00:01:13.799 --> 00:01:17.099 I loved the way the whole thing or most of it was told through 28 00:01:17.099 --> 00:01:20.159 basically a series of screens in front of Lindy in total social 29 00:01:20.159 --> 00:01:20.939 media world. 30 00:01:21.000 --> 00:01:24.599 So I was really on board with just doing something differently. 31 00:01:24.599 --> 00:01:28.739 And I know there are other comments which are made in the episode 32 00:01:28.739 --> 00:01:31.680 but I think the commentary about social media and our social media 33 00:01:31.680 --> 00:01:34.560 bubble is, I think, a very, very powerful and relevant one. 34 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:36.180 What do you think, Peter? 35 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:38.159 Hmm, Dot and bubble. 36 00:01:38.219 --> 00:01:41.099 Sadly, it wasn't the EastEnders abfab crossover that I've been 37 00:01:41.099 --> 00:01:41.640 waiting for. 38 00:01:42.239 --> 00:01:44.280 I did enjoy it. 39 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:46.739 The episode was entertaining for the most part. 40 00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:48.299 It had some nice ideas in it. 41 00:01:48.359 --> 00:01:53.040 I like when Doctor Who goes a bit out there without being open 42 00:01:53.040 --> 00:01:55.560 quote bonkers, close quote. 43 00:01:55.620 --> 00:01:57.840 I like the macrterra, I like gridlock. 44 00:01:57.900 --> 00:01:59.760 Um, I love the Sunmakers. 45 00:01:59.819 --> 00:02:01.200 I adore the happiness patrol. 46 00:02:01.260 --> 00:02:03.900 This is very much in their cast, and so I'm genetically 47 00:02:03.900 --> 00:02:05.400 predisposed to like this. 48 00:02:05.459 --> 00:02:08.580 And I did, in some ways, not in all ways. 49 00:02:08.639 --> 00:02:10.379 And Todd. 50 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:15.000 I didn't think I was going to like it, but as it went along, I 51 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:15.900 liked it more and more. 52 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:20.280 And as Simon said, the visual, I love the visuals, like all the 53 00:02:20.280 --> 00:02:23.819 colours, the bright colours, the bright colours, the light blue 54 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:24.960 and the yellow and that. 55 00:02:25.020 --> 00:02:26.939 Yeah, I like that palette. 56 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.539 I, um, yeah, it's all it's all pastels, isn't it? 57 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:34.979 It's really very well done because it is kind of funny seeing, like 58 00:02:34.979 --> 00:02:38.639 those sort of weird Doctor Who's are kind of associated with the 59 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:45.180 60s and maybe gridlock, maybe the end of the world sort of, but 60 00:02:45.180 --> 00:02:47.699 it's kind of the 1st time that we've seen anything quite as weird 61 00:02:47.699 --> 00:02:49.199 as the happiness patrol. 62 00:02:49.259 --> 00:02:53.280 Or I was also thinking Paradise Towers as well. 63 00:02:53.340 --> 00:02:56.819 You know, where characters have their own kind of dialect, their 64 00:02:56.819 --> 00:02:59.219 way of speaking, they have a weird way of being named. 65 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:04.080 And now seeing that done now with sort of modern production 66 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.680 sensibilities, even just that opening scene in Lindy's flat, where 67 00:03:07.680 --> 00:03:11.520 her flat looks amazing, and then you look out the window and you 68 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:15.419 see, you know, all of these, like the bubble keeps recurring as 69 00:03:15.419 --> 00:03:18.360 part of a design element, the whole place is in a bubble. 70 00:03:18.419 --> 00:03:22.919 But there's, you know, round portholes round things out the window 71 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:24.000 all of the windows around. 72 00:03:24.060 --> 00:03:27.300 Like, everything is kind of of a piece, I think. 73 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:28.919 And it looks really good. 74 00:03:28.979 --> 00:03:32.340 Apparently, a lot of the location stuff was at the University of 75 00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:34.259 Swansea, which is kind of hilarious. 76 00:03:34.379 --> 00:03:37.319 Um, but I just think it looked... just apt. 77 00:03:38.039 --> 00:03:40.379 But I just think it looked amazing. 78 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:43.139 I mean, it really did look quite extraordinary. 79 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:47.879 What I what I feared was that it was just going to be a Aunt Gen Z 80 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:50.460 dumb with their phones and stuff. 81 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.860 And I thought, that would be so boring. 82 00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:54.479 That would be so boring. 83 00:03:54.539 --> 00:03:58.500 And it looks like it's going to be that and then it takes a kind 84 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:01.979 of sharp turn, which I thought was pretty interesting. 85 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.740 So how do we feel that satire landed? 86 00:04:04.800 --> 00:04:06.719 I thought it was kind of obvious. 87 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:08.879 It's like a lot of this season. 88 00:04:08.939 --> 00:04:10.199 It's been fairly obvious. 89 00:04:10.259 --> 00:04:11.400 It was low hanging fruits. 90 00:04:11.460 --> 00:04:12.659 I did enjoy it. 91 00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.360 It didn't feel that the story was developed. 92 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:21.540 It was developed one step away from our earth here and what we 93 00:04:21.540 --> 00:04:24.060 live and live in society, which is what talk to has always done. 94 00:04:24.120 --> 00:04:27.000 I felt it could have been taken another step further so that this 95 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:31.259 satire wasn't quite so on the nose, but I did enjoy it. 96 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:33.480 Simon? 97 00:04:33.540 --> 00:04:35.939 Yeah, I mean, I'd agree with that sentiment. 98 00:04:36.000 --> 00:04:41.040 I mean, it's subtlety is not generally one of RTD strong points 99 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:44.279 but then, you know, often it is in the program more broadly anyway 100 00:04:44.279 --> 00:04:45.240 I'll admit to that. 101 00:04:45.360 --> 00:04:51.720 But I suppose because I go in with those expectations, I was able 102 00:04:51.720 --> 00:04:52.379 to enjoy it. 103 00:04:52.439 --> 00:04:55.920 And I think that I think it's able to satire multiple things at 104 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:57.360 once and comment on multiple things at once. 105 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:00.839 And I think I think there is a little bit of the gen Z, uh, you 106 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:03.480 know, don't like to turn up to work because they don't feel like 107 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:06.360 you know, that kind of whole kind of cliche that, that, that we 108 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:06.600 have. 109 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:09.180 I think that's a thing too and why not? 110 00:05:09.240 --> 00:05:12.180 I think it's as much that the satire is as much about having 111 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:16.860 having people, you know, living in your bubble and not necessarily 112 00:05:16.860 --> 00:05:19.740 even a social media bubble, but like the bubble that we all are 113 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:21.420 kind of living in. 114 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:25.019 And I know there are other reasons for the rejection of the doctor 115 00:05:25.019 --> 00:05:28.560 and Millie, but nevertheless, I think it's also about the fact 116 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.199 that you're not part of our tribe, so you don't belong with us. 117 00:05:31.259 --> 00:05:34.259 So I think, I think there are actually, surprisingly, there are 118 00:05:34.259 --> 00:05:37.620 actually a lot more things going on in this than you think there 119 00:05:37.620 --> 00:05:40.019 are when you've, you know, 5 or 10 minutes in. 120 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:43.319 What I appreciated about it was the commentary on a generational 121 00:05:43.319 --> 00:05:46.920 bubble as well, because more and more, you know, we saw it in 122 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:50.160 things like the Brexit vote in the UK, we see it in politics all 123 00:05:50.160 --> 00:05:50.699 the time now. 124 00:05:50.759 --> 00:05:55.500 There's an incredible generational gap between how young people 125 00:05:55.500 --> 00:05:58.920 think that they're being served by society and politics and how 126 00:05:58.920 --> 00:06:02.519 older people were and how they think about that together. 127 00:06:02.579 --> 00:06:06.000 And it's creating a lot of friction between generations which 128 00:06:06.000 --> 00:06:08.699 never existed maybe 30 years ago. 129 00:06:08.759 --> 00:06:11.220 So I appreciated that commentary. 130 00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:14.579 Although it's interesting there, Peter, because the political 131 00:06:14.579 --> 00:06:14.879 thing. 132 00:06:14.939 --> 00:06:19.139 I mean, they're not, these guys are not resentful of their 133 00:06:19.139 --> 00:06:19.560 parents. 134 00:06:19.620 --> 00:06:22.439 Their parents have paid for them to be in this place. 135 00:06:22.500 --> 00:06:26.279 It is showing the generational bubble in one regard, but not in a 136 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:27.420 kind of a divisive way. 137 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:30.180 We's not actually saying, well, you know, we're on this side, and 138 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:32.160 the old people don't know what they're talking about, and they're 139 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:34.259 over that side, which I think probably would have more gone in 140 00:06:34.259 --> 00:06:37.860 that direction. if that's what they were wanting to do. 141 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:40.920 Well, I was one of the elements of the satire that I actually 142 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:41.399 thought worked. 143 00:06:41.459 --> 00:06:43.680 I didn't want that addressed on the nosed, but the fact that 144 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:47.279 they'd kind of segregated the old and the young people and then 145 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:50.579 the young people lived in their social media bubble while not 146 00:06:50.579 --> 00:06:53.639 being able to afford their own round windowed flats because their 147 00:06:53.639 --> 00:06:56.160 parents had to provide it for them because they had the money. 148 00:06:56.220 --> 00:07:00.120 And then having the older generation actually eaten by slugs just 149 00:07:00.120 --> 00:07:02.459 leaving the younger generation defender for themselves. 150 00:07:02.519 --> 00:07:04.079 That was satire that I was on board with. 151 00:07:04.740 --> 00:07:09.060 Yeah, so I think old people have plagued our fragile earth for far 152 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:09.540 too long. 153 00:07:09.600 --> 00:07:11.160 Todd. 154 00:07:11.699 --> 00:07:16.680 My husband likes to watch reality television shows, and some of 155 00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.060 them are quite good, and others, I've sat through like Paris in 156 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:22.920 love with Paris Hilton. 157 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:26.519 And I have to say, like, I mean, did she get eaten by a slug? 158 00:07:26.579 --> 00:07:29.759 Well, no. wishing she would be. 159 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:34.199 Well, yes, I sat there at times going, this woman is so vacuous. 160 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:37.800 And then she would show glimpses, actually, of humanity, and you 161 00:07:37.800 --> 00:07:39.000 actually think there's more there. 162 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:43.620 And then in a 2nd she suddenly would do something which I go, well 163 00:07:43.620 --> 00:07:45.000 no, it's not there at all. 164 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:48.000 And she's got all these followers for unknown reasons. 165 00:07:48.060 --> 00:07:52.199 So the 1st 10 minutes for me was like, I'm watching some sort of 166 00:07:52.199 --> 00:07:53.279 parody of that happening. 167 00:07:53.339 --> 00:07:54.899 I'm going, I don't want to know these people. 168 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:55.920 I don't want to know this. 169 00:07:55.980 --> 00:07:56.939 Please just let it end. 170 00:07:57.000 --> 00:07:58.980 So, and rewatching it today. 171 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.800 It was actually quite interesting watching it from that 172 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:05.639 perspective, really, but I just want to say Paris Hilton is not 173 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:08.939 racist in case anybody's thinking that she actually isn't, but 174 00:08:08.939 --> 00:08:09.839 that we know of. 175 00:08:09.899 --> 00:08:12.300 It's just, I just thought it was a satire of that he was obviously 176 00:08:12.300 --> 00:08:13.079 watched her show. 177 00:08:13.139 --> 00:08:15.120 Todd, I'm interested. 178 00:08:15.180 --> 00:08:17.699 Did Ash watch it with you and what did he think? 179 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:21.300 Um, he didn't really like it that much. 180 00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:21.899 No. 181 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:24.720 Like, um, yeah, it wasn't for him. 182 00:08:24.779 --> 00:08:28.620 He said it wasn't, he didn't like her in particular, but we did 183 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:30.720 both laugh when she walked into that poll. 184 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:31.980 Let's just... 185 00:08:33.419 --> 00:08:36.120 Talk about things that are done unsubtly, yeah. 186 00:08:36.179 --> 00:08:37.019 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 187 00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:39.600 Well that's another lift from Moffat, I think. 188 00:08:39.720 --> 00:08:41.159 RTD's doing a lot of that. 189 00:08:41.220 --> 00:08:44.399 I certainly think the discovery that people are being eaten 190 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.759 alphabetically is pure Moffat. 191 00:08:47.820 --> 00:08:50.519 And apparently this will... 192 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:53.100 Certainly moth at if it's Moth at and Davies in the same program. 193 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:54.360 Well, I think that's it. 194 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:57.899 And they are in the same room because I think this is pitched. 195 00:08:57.960 --> 00:09:01.740 This was originally pitched by Davey's tomb Moffat during the 196 00:09:01.740 --> 00:09:05.759 Moffat era and the Moffat was involved in the, you know, talking 197 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:10.320 conversations, developing it now that it's actually kind of, you 198 00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:13.620 know, just technically possible to actually achieve it in a 199 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:14.399 satisfactory way. 200 00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:16.080 I was thinking, Todd. 201 00:09:16.139 --> 00:09:19.379 In fact, Ruby notices exactly that thing. 202 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.620 Doesn't she say this is like Planet Love Island or something? 203 00:09:22.679 --> 00:09:27.600 Like she thinks that this is exactly like one of those reality TV 204 00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:31.559 shows where everyone has their followers and everyone's sort of 205 00:09:31.559 --> 00:09:35.039 being lovely and being influencers and talking about their clothes 206 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:36.600 and all of that sort of thing. 207 00:09:36.659 --> 00:09:42.240 Um, so, so the thing, the thing that I didn't spot straight away 208 00:09:42.240 --> 00:09:43.740 is that everyone's white. 209 00:09:43.799 --> 00:09:50.879 And that is something that obviously other people noticed 210 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:51.899 immediately. 211 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:56.340 And I have to, in my defence, say at least on this week's episode 212 00:09:56.340 --> 00:10:00.240 of Untitled Star Trek project, I bitch about how white everyone is 213 00:10:00.240 --> 00:10:01.259 in the car. 214 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:03.240 So sometimes that's something I notice. 215 00:10:03.299 --> 00:10:04.559 I didn't notice it this time. 216 00:10:04.620 --> 00:10:08.279 I was a little bit distracted, possibly by just how queer everyone 217 00:10:08.279 --> 00:10:09.000 looked. 218 00:10:09.059 --> 00:10:13.740 But nevertheless, you know, there's a way in which the episode 219 00:10:13.740 --> 00:10:17.879 critiques you, because the 2nd watch through. 220 00:10:17.940 --> 00:10:24.539 Obviously, you see that Lindy is mean to both Ruby and the doctor 221 00:10:24.539 --> 00:10:27.299 but she is mean to them in a different way. 222 00:10:27.360 --> 00:10:33.659 When the doctrine and Ruby appear in the group chat. 223 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:36.840 All of these sort of people who are just, you know, they're just 224 00:10:36.840 --> 00:10:38.039 kind of featured actors. 225 00:10:38.100 --> 00:10:40.620 They're talking, they only get a few lines each episode. 226 00:10:40.679 --> 00:10:41.340 Do you know what I mean? 227 00:10:41.399 --> 00:10:43.980 They'd have been in for a couple of hours just shooting against a 228 00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:45.000 wall sort of thing. 229 00:10:45.059 --> 00:10:49.440 But they're all desperately doing their disgusted acting when the 230 00:10:49.440 --> 00:10:53.220 doctor speaks and, you know, being discussed at being in the same 231 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:55.440 group, chatters him and all of that's sort of quite clear. 232 00:10:55.500 --> 00:11:00.840 And then, of course, we get Lindy meeting a white version of the 233 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.559 doctor, who she is much nicer to up until the point where she 234 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:06.000 obviously gets him killed. 235 00:11:06.059 --> 00:11:11.519 But she reacts much better to white Doctor Who than she does to uh 236 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:13.559 than she does to our doctor. 237 00:11:13.620 --> 00:11:18.299 No, no, but the reason she possibly, but the reason she reacts so 238 00:11:18.299 --> 00:11:20.759 positively to Ricky September is because of the fact that she is 239 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:22.259 following him, she is a fan of his. 240 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:26.100 So he is already someone who her group has decided is fabulous and 241 00:11:26.100 --> 00:11:27.419 acceptable. 242 00:11:27.480 --> 00:11:29.519 And just going back on the race thing. 243 00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:32.460 It's funny because I, I, well, sometimes when I'm watching shows 244 00:11:32.460 --> 00:11:35.220 like, well, any show, really, and I noticed something like that 245 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:37.919 and about halfway through, I realised that, oh, everyone's 246 00:11:37.919 --> 00:11:41.639 actually white in this, and my brain 1st, the 1st thing my brain 247 00:11:41.639 --> 00:11:45.179 goes to is that was a strange mistake that they've made. 248 00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:46.139 Do you know what I mean? 249 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:48.059 I just immediately think it's a production mistake and they've 250 00:11:48.059 --> 00:11:50.399 suddenly gotten to the editing and going, oh my gosh, we haven't 251 00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:52.440 actually gotten any people of colour in this. 252 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.340 But, and then it's only kind of at the end that I realised, oh 253 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:59.700 actually, no, it's actually, they're actually making a point. 254 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:01.980 But as I said before, I don't think it's just about race. 255 00:12:02.039 --> 00:12:07.740 It's also about who part of the disgust that she has with at the 256 00:12:07.740 --> 00:12:11.759 doctor and because it is also with Millie as well, is because they 257 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:17.039 are not, they haven't been pre-approved effectively to be part of 258 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:17.940 their group. 259 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:20.879 I think it works on a racial level and also works on that other 260 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:21.299 level too. 261 00:12:21.360 --> 00:12:21.659 Sure. 262 00:12:21.659 --> 00:12:23.340 And you're not allowed to be one of us. 263 00:12:23.399 --> 00:12:25.559 You're not allowed to be one of us. yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. 264 00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:28.980 And she is dismissive of Ruby, but when the doctor appears 1st on 265 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:33.059 her screen, he's surrounded by like warnings and stuff in a way 266 00:12:33.059 --> 00:12:34.440 that Ruby Sunday isn't. 267 00:12:34.500 --> 00:12:36.299 She blocks him immediately. 268 00:12:36.600 --> 00:12:39.600 When the next black guy turns up. 269 00:12:39.659 --> 00:12:42.360 She just thinks it's another black guy because they all look the 270 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:42.600 same. 271 00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:44.879 I mean, she says all of this sort of stuff. 272 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:46.259 It is all very clearly there. 273 00:12:46.320 --> 00:12:51.899 And I do think that the, um, the Ricky September stuff is played 274 00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:55.259 exactly like the doctor meeting a companion for the 1st time with 275 00:12:55.259 --> 00:12:57.600 that handholding, the, I'm going to save you. 276 00:12:57.659 --> 00:12:58.740 I'll get you out of this. 277 00:12:58.799 --> 00:12:59.580 All of that stuff. 278 00:12:59.639 --> 00:13:00.840 He's a doctor. 279 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:02.879 And she reacts well to this doctor. 280 00:13:02.940 --> 00:13:07.740 And, you know, like, I think, yes, she knows him and fancies him 281 00:13:07.740 --> 00:13:10.679 and stuff like that, but also, I think, you know, within the 282 00:13:10.679 --> 00:13:11.399 story. 283 00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:15.360 There's a very clear reason why he's portrayed like that, I 284 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:15.600 think. 285 00:13:15.659 --> 00:13:19.620 I also thought there was an interesting commentary there on social 286 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:23.519 media followers, relationship with the people that they follow, and 287 00:13:23.519 --> 00:13:27.539 that all that they, all that you get when you have the big fandom 288 00:13:27.539 --> 00:13:30.720 who follows a celebrity on TikTok or whatever, is they get what is 289 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:32.940 given to them to be digested. 290 00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:36.960 And you get this feeling that if ever they met in real life and 291 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:42.480 they didn't live up to this, um, hopelessly inflated view of what 292 00:13:42.480 --> 00:13:46.200 they were, um, that the fandom could turn on them in an instant. 293 00:13:46.259 --> 00:13:50.639 And I kind of, I got that from this episode that, you know, love 294 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:55.139 and hate in social media is such a finely balanced thing that it's 295 00:13:55.139 --> 00:14:00.480 very easy to be cancelled for just not being what someone ideally 296 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:01.379 expects you to be. 297 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:04.019 Yes, and the judgement is summarial. 298 00:14:04.139 --> 00:14:05.340 It's so fast, it just happens. 299 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.419 Yes, and it's gone from 100% love to 100% hate gone. 300 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:13.139 But when he turns out to be quite different from what she expected 301 00:14:13.139 --> 00:14:16.440 with all of his, you know, like I can walk and I read books and 302 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:18.000 you know, I know about history and stuff. 303 00:14:18.059 --> 00:14:19.019 That's not the thing. 304 00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.460 I can do all that. 305 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.559 Yeah, I can sometimes do it. 306 00:14:22.620 --> 00:14:27.960 Um, but, but, um, it's, it's when her life is threatened. 307 00:14:28.019 --> 00:14:30.659 You know, the 2nd her life is threatened, she is such a piece of 308 00:14:30.659 --> 00:14:34.919 work, she is such an absolutely appalling person that she just 309 00:14:34.919 --> 00:14:36.419 throws him to the walls immediately. 310 00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:39.539 And so I don't think he's cancelled in any kind of sense. 311 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.639 It's just that she is so awful. 312 00:14:41.700 --> 00:14:45.539 She's so fabulously horrible as a person. 313 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.639 Did you find, though, that when I was waiting for the moment, like 314 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.759 I don't know, 15, 20 minutes in, you're waiting for her to 315 00:14:53.759 --> 00:14:58.379 actually get a grip and start to do what Millie's saying and start 316 00:14:58.379 --> 00:15:02.519 to take the doctor away and not just completely be fulfall to 317 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:02.820 pieces. 318 00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:06.779 And then it took me a while to realise, oh, actually, no, she's 319 00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:07.679 actually never going to get a grip. 320 00:15:07.740 --> 00:15:12.419 That's the whole point is she's just she's just totally hopeless 321 00:15:12.419 --> 00:15:15.120 at everything and even, you know, can't even walk and that kind of 322 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:17.940 crap, which is probably a bit over the top, but, you know, I get 323 00:15:17.940 --> 00:15:18.840 the point that's trying to be made. 324 00:15:18.899 --> 00:15:21.419 Having watched Paris in love. 325 00:15:21.659 --> 00:15:23.279 That's not too far from reality. 326 00:15:24.299 --> 00:15:27.059 I mean, she can do I'm out of touch. 327 00:15:27.120 --> 00:15:30.000 Obviously walk, but you know, there's other things which I kind of 328 00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.100 think, 0 my goodness, didn't your mother ever teach you how to do 329 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:32.279 that? 330 00:15:32.340 --> 00:15:33.539 Even her husband says that. 331 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:38.460 I thought she was, I sucked in because I actually thought every, oh 332 00:15:38.460 --> 00:15:40.980 I'll give her the benefit of the doubt every, every time she did 333 00:15:40.980 --> 00:15:45.179 something hopeless and then, oh no, she's having a rethink, she'll 334 00:15:45.179 --> 00:15:46.620 get there in the end, she'll get there in the end. 335 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:50.879 I've written off Ricky as one of those foolish people on the in 336 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:51.480 the bubble. 337 00:15:51.539 --> 00:15:54.600 And so it was very refreshing when he came into it and thought, oh 338 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:54.899 wonderful. 339 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:58.919 And now she'll get a grip, but she was just a truly awful person 340 00:16:00.059 --> 00:16:02.100 unbelievable. 341 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:06.120 That moment where she just says, oh, his last name's Coombs or 342 00:16:06.120 --> 00:16:08.639 something is just so brutal. 343 00:16:08.700 --> 00:16:12.899 She's really, really awful in every way, and she is horrible to 344 00:16:12.899 --> 00:16:16.320 Ruby, but she's really, really quite horrible to the doctor. 345 00:16:16.379 --> 00:16:17.820 Just awful. 346 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:22.379 Um, and it is that sort of thing where you're kind of one of the 347 00:16:22.379 --> 00:16:26.639 things that the episode does, I think, is that her poor behaviour 348 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:31.019 is the sort of thing that we could just sort of dismiss. 349 00:16:31.080 --> 00:16:34.679 But I think there were people watching this and I've, you know 350 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:35.639 gone online and stuff. 351 00:16:35.700 --> 00:16:39.600 People watching this kind of going, oh yeah, she's super racist. 352 00:16:39.659 --> 00:16:44.580 Like almost immediately, because it's that kind of that just the 353 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:48.659 sort of things that she says are the sort of things that people 354 00:16:48.659 --> 00:16:51.419 kind of encounter on a regular basis. 355 00:16:51.480 --> 00:16:55.019 And so what we regarded as sort of, you know, this is a horrible 356 00:16:55.019 --> 00:16:55.440 person. 357 00:16:55.500 --> 00:16:59.279 And, you know, like I don't think anyone, anyone watching it 358 00:16:59.279 --> 00:17:01.980 wasn't enjoying the spectacle of all of these white people being 359 00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:03.899 eaten by slugs. you know what I mean? 360 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:07.200 even if we weren't thinking of it in those terms. 361 00:17:07.259 --> 00:17:11.279 But I think that some people had a head start in recognising kind 362 00:17:11.279 --> 00:17:15.359 of what what sort of behaviour was being depicted from Lindy, I 363 00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:15.539 think. 364 00:17:15.960 --> 00:17:18.480 White people being eaten by slugs. 365 00:17:18.539 --> 00:17:21.359 It's like the sequel to Frontios, we know that... 366 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:24.599 Or potentially Arc in Spain. 367 00:17:24.660 --> 00:17:28.019 I was so hoping they were going to be tractators or whatever the 368 00:17:28.019 --> 00:17:30.539 hell, what's... 369 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:31.319 What's messed up? 370 00:17:31.319 --> 00:17:33.059 Gastropol, yes. 371 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.220 I thought I bet they're going to be gastropods. 372 00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:36.660 They're really funny too. 373 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:37.559 Aren't they wonderful? 374 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.640 Like, the thing where she leaps across. at the guy next to her in 375 00:17:41.640 --> 00:17:46.019 the office and he's got the tartan trousers that are kind of 376 00:17:46.019 --> 00:17:47.819 sticking out of this thing. 377 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.339 The production team called the man traps. 378 00:17:50.400 --> 00:17:51.599 Apparently. 379 00:17:51.660 --> 00:17:52.559 Right. 380 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:55.619 I will say that it is a nod to the classic ear of the program that 381 00:17:55.619 --> 00:17:59.039 you do have these very slow moving things, which people kind of 382 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:00.660 seem incapable of getting away from. 383 00:18:00.779 --> 00:18:04.079 And in fact, and in fact, when they've been, when they've been 384 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:06.480 slightly touched by them, they can't even kind of back away, they 385 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.019 kind of, you know, it's like dealing with a monotra or something 386 00:18:10.019 --> 00:18:12.420 like the way they, they kind of... 387 00:18:12.660 --> 00:18:15.059 They kind of allow themselves. 388 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.819 It's that kind of acting where you've got to pretend that you're 389 00:18:17.819 --> 00:18:20.400 actually being overwhelmed by this piece of CGI. 390 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.519 Yes, that telephone cord is wrapping around you, not the other way 391 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:23.759 around. 392 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:25.500 Yes, exactly. 393 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:28.799 By the modern standards. 394 00:18:28.859 --> 00:18:31.200 I don't feel that they're overly successful, I confess. 395 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.059 I thought they were wonderful. 396 00:18:33.119 --> 00:18:34.019 Yeah, yeah. 397 00:18:34.019 --> 00:18:36.180 People can't walk away from them because they can't walk. 398 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:37.140 Do you know what I mean? 399 00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:40.079 Like they're absolutely paddle to the slaughter when it comes to 400 00:18:40.079 --> 00:18:40.380 this. 401 00:18:40.440 --> 00:18:43.140 I think, you know, they're very perfunctory. 402 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:45.900 It is that thing, you know, your dot has been watching you all for 403 00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:49.440 so long that it just hates you and it designs to conjure up a 404 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:50.339 whole bunch of slugs. 405 00:18:50.460 --> 00:18:53.940 So I wonders why the dot doesn't just like pulverise your head 406 00:18:53.940 --> 00:18:54.960 like it goes to me. 407 00:18:55.019 --> 00:18:57.359 Yeah, given that it can fly right into your head. 408 00:18:57.420 --> 00:19:00.299 It's right in front of your head and it's just... 409 00:19:00.299 --> 00:19:03.119 It didn't think of that till later as my aggressive dot. 410 00:19:03.660 --> 00:19:06.240 Well, it's a bit of a red herring, really. 411 00:19:06.299 --> 00:19:07.859 Yeah, it's a red herring. 412 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:10.619 Yeah, because like I thought, oh, they've invaded and it's the 413 00:19:10.619 --> 00:19:13.140 slow invasion of the slugs or whatever and they don't seem because 414 00:19:13.140 --> 00:19:13.799 they're in the dots. 415 00:19:13.859 --> 00:19:16.440 So it sends you off on a different path, depending on where you're 416 00:19:16.440 --> 00:19:16.559 looking. 417 00:19:16.619 --> 00:19:20.099 Yeah, you're already given the idea that somehow they've breached 418 00:19:20.099 --> 00:19:24.299 the thing and they're from the outside is kind of, I think, you 419 00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:25.319 know, what you're meant to think. 420 00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:29.400 You don't think it's a commentary on, you know, the fact that the 421 00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:32.099 dots, the dots been listening to you and decided that it doesn't 422 00:19:32.099 --> 00:19:32.400 like you. 423 00:19:32.460 --> 00:19:35.519 It's no commentary on Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg or something 424 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:38.940 deciding that they don't like, everyone who uses their platforms. 425 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.460 Well, do you know, one of the things is, one of the things that I 426 00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:45.539 think about social media is that there's a big kind of social 427 00:19:45.539 --> 00:19:50.460 media, moral panic at the moment about social media being bad for 428 00:19:50.460 --> 00:19:53.700 children and we have, you know, the federal government here 429 00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:59.880 wanting to ban social media for people under 16 instead of perhaps 430 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.519 suggesting that people could do some parenting for a change. 431 00:20:02.579 --> 00:20:08.640 And I think that that is a moral panic, and I think that the 432 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:13.799 danger posed by social media isn't that you're going to, you know 433 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:15.539 be contacted by a paedophile. 434 00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.599 It isn't that you're going to forget how to walk and you're going 435 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:21.359 to bump into things because you're so wrapped up in your phone. 436 00:20:21.420 --> 00:20:27.000 The danger is the social media algorithms, that foreground, just 437 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:31.799 alt right opinions, that you're watching a video about Doctor Who 438 00:20:31.799 --> 00:20:35.099 and the next video that YouTube suggests is, and here's what a 439 00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:37.079 Nazi thing's about, Doctor Who. 440 00:20:37.140 --> 00:20:43.559 And I think that children being radicalised online by that sort of 441 00:20:43.559 --> 00:20:47.880 material is a much more present danger and kind of that's what we 442 00:20:47.880 --> 00:20:48.240 have. 443 00:20:48.299 --> 00:20:52.079 You've got a social bubble that Lindy belongs to, that consists 444 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.519 entirely of white people who get annoyed if a black person turns 445 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:58.079 up and starts talking to them. 446 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:03.779 So I think that's there, I think, as an idea, you know, the 447 00:21:03.779 --> 00:21:07.500 particular bubble that's portrayed here is that sort of bubble. 448 00:21:07.980 --> 00:21:12.299 Yeah, I mean, it's not the, it's not the social media per se. 449 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.779 It's the way the algorithms work now, which is, is, is, but also 450 00:21:15.779 --> 00:21:18.960 has made it from, I mean, we're getting off topic here, but from 451 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:22.019 my point of view, with social media, how much, how less I interact 452 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:24.720 with it, and partly because people are interacting with me less 453 00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:27.240 because of course, you scroll through Facebook or Twitter, and 454 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:29.640 it's just all these other stuff, rather than it being what it used 455 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:31.859 to be, which is just basically a reverse timeline of what 456 00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:35.819 whoever's posted, whatever in, in, from present, back into the 457 00:21:35.819 --> 00:21:37.079 distant past, you know. 458 00:21:37.140 --> 00:21:39.960 And so it's been because the content's being curated for us. 459 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:42.779 And I don't think it's necessarily because they want to turn us 460 00:21:42.779 --> 00:21:43.799 all into neo-Nazis. 461 00:21:43.859 --> 00:21:46.259 It's because they know that that video of the Nazi reaction, Doctor 462 00:21:46.259 --> 00:21:49.140 Who, whatever it is, is going to get a reaction out of us that's 463 00:21:49.140 --> 00:21:49.920 going to get more engagement. 464 00:21:50.039 --> 00:21:52.200 So it's not an actual ideological thing. 465 00:21:52.259 --> 00:21:54.539 It's actually purely driven by how many clicks, how many 466 00:21:54.539 --> 00:21:55.440 interactions will this get? 467 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.019 Anyway, that's a very long topic for a different time. 468 00:21:58.079 --> 00:21:59.880 Well, for flight through entirety. 469 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.259 It's like when you go onto YouTube and you watch like a travel 470 00:22:04.259 --> 00:22:08.220 video, you know, someone who does plane journeys and reports back 471 00:22:08.220 --> 00:22:10.380 on what the soft product is like and all that kind of thing. 472 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:17.220 They will always head it up with my my really nasty review of this 473 00:22:17.220 --> 00:22:21.480 terrible product and you'll see that it gets 10 times the views of 474 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:21.900 anything else. 475 00:22:21.960 --> 00:22:24.359 And so people do it all the time, even when it's not that. 476 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:25.859 Yeah, yeah. 477 00:22:25.980 --> 00:22:31.079 All right, let's talk about the fact that we have our 2nd Dr. Light 478 00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.059 episode in a row. 479 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:39.599 This is not quite as light as last week, and clearly they did what 480 00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:42.839 they did in blink, which is just have the doctor stand against a 481 00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:46.500 wall and then they could film him at one camera angle and get a 482 00:22:46.500 --> 00:22:49.619 lot of material in in a very short amount of time and then just 483 00:22:49.619 --> 00:22:50.460 give him more. 484 00:22:50.519 --> 00:22:51.599 And he's actually won a scene. 485 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:52.500 Yeah, yeah. 486 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.039 Yeah. 487 00:22:53.099 --> 00:22:58.619 I do think it was unfortunate that 25% of Shooty's 1st season is 488 00:22:58.619 --> 00:22:59.460 Dr. Light. 489 00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:01.680 I understand completely the reasons for this. 490 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:04.200 It's just a shame that they couldn't scheduled their way out of 491 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:04.319 it. 492 00:23:04.380 --> 00:23:05.519 Exactly. 493 00:23:05.579 --> 00:23:07.500 I think that's very unfortunate. 494 00:23:07.559 --> 00:23:09.119 But look, I think it works. 495 00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:10.859 Look, any of these episodes are perfectly fine. 496 00:23:10.920 --> 00:23:14.220 It's just a shame that you've got them consecutively. 497 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:17.339 And I mean, even going back to Boom, which I know is not a Dr 498 00:23:17.339 --> 00:23:22.259 Light episode, obviously, but in another way, it's a, let's just 499 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:23.579 have shooty in this one set. 500 00:23:24.420 --> 00:23:26.339 And do the whole thing. 501 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.759 And so now looking at that retrospectively, it's quite clearly 502 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.099 part of that broader problem that they had. 503 00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:36.059 Look, I think that, yeah, I totally agree with you. 504 00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:39.779 I do like the fact that as the episode went on, Ruby and the 505 00:23:39.779 --> 00:23:40.920 doctor were there more and more. 506 00:23:40.980 --> 00:23:43.380 So it's sort of built towards the end, which is probably why I 507 00:23:43.380 --> 00:23:46.319 liked it more as it went along as they were really interacting and 508 00:23:46.319 --> 00:23:49.079 being in the space with, with, with Findy. 509 00:23:49.140 --> 00:23:52.680 So, um, yeah, totally understand why they had to do it. 510 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:56.759 I've heard it said that it wouldn't be such a big deal if this was 511 00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:58.980 like a 13 episode season, but if there's any eight. 512 00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:00.299 That's a little bit unfortunate. 513 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:00.779 Sorry, Nathan. 514 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:01.559 No, no, I agree. 515 00:24:01.619 --> 00:24:05.579 I think, Eric, friend of the podcast, Eric Stadnick, said that one 516 00:24:05.579 --> 00:24:09.180 of the features of the previous Russell seasons is that they're 517 00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:11.640 actually very carefully done. 518 00:24:11.700 --> 00:24:12.599 They're carefully organised. 519 00:24:12.660 --> 00:24:16.259 You have, you know, a sort of lighter episode on Earth in the 520 00:24:16.259 --> 00:24:16.740 present day. 521 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:18.599 You go to the past, you go to the future. 522 00:24:18.660 --> 00:24:22.440 You have a two-parter with a returning monster that's generally 523 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:23.099 light. 524 00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:24.779 You have one or 2 things. 525 00:24:24.839 --> 00:24:27.359 You have the darker two-parter towards the end. 526 00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:28.559 Do you know what I mean? 527 00:24:28.619 --> 00:24:34.019 Like every season is sort of constructed in a, in a way, uh, that 528 00:24:34.019 --> 00:24:37.920 allows a kind of buildup and variety and all of that sort of 529 00:24:37.920 --> 00:24:38.460 thing. 530 00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:43.259 And this where, um, you know, we've got dialogue suggesting in 531 00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:46.619 episode 2 or 3, depending on how you count it, in the devil's 532 00:24:46.619 --> 00:24:50.099 court, that Ruby's been with a doctor for 6 months, then the 533 00:24:50.099 --> 00:24:53.279 following episode we hear that this is her 1st alien planet. 534 00:24:53.339 --> 00:24:57.480 You know, it looks like boom was originally earlier in the 535 00:24:57.480 --> 00:25:00.599 schedules that something has happened, and now you have 2 536 00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:04.440 consecutive episodes, where I think that perhaps it would have 537 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:07.559 been less of a problem had those been separated in the running 538 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:08.579 order in some way. 539 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:13.380 So something has happened here, I think, and we're not seeing the 540 00:25:13.380 --> 00:25:16.079 episodes in the order, they were originally intended, I think. 541 00:25:16.140 --> 00:25:20.039 I mean, the flavour of Doc 2 always carries you forward. 542 00:25:20.099 --> 00:25:22.319 It always compensates for the absence of the doctor. 543 00:25:22.380 --> 00:25:24.960 And I think they've gotten used to during these doctor light 544 00:25:24.960 --> 00:25:29.460 episodes, casting an actor who's capable of leading the show in 545 00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:30.420 the doctor's absence. 546 00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:34.079 So Elton in love and monsters or, of course, Sally Sparrow in 547 00:25:34.079 --> 00:25:34.500 Blink. 548 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:36.480 And I think here was another case of that. 549 00:25:36.539 --> 00:25:39.599 It is just, as you say, unfortunate that we've had 2 in a row. 550 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:42.000 I feel like I was still getting to know this doctor and I don't 551 00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:42.960 want his absence. 552 00:25:43.019 --> 00:25:45.119 I want him on screen front and centre. 553 00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:49.259 And so when he comes back in that last scene and is front and 554 00:25:49.259 --> 00:25:50.579 centre and does a good job. 555 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:52.380 You think, yeah, this is what I wanted all along. 556 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.660 Everything else was okay, but I want this. 557 00:25:55.019 --> 00:25:56.940 Yeah, I entirely agree. 558 00:25:57.000 --> 00:25:58.319 Yeah. 559 00:25:58.380 --> 00:26:00.299 What do you, what do we think of the final scene? 560 00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:04.019 Look, I think it wraps it up. 561 00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:09.599 Well, it ties up, ties it all up in a good bow, what we think 562 00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.960 we've been watching, you know, have we been watching this, right? 563 00:26:13.019 --> 00:26:17.039 And so, but I like the fact that it's not completely explicit. 564 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.759 And I do notice out there that there are some people who haven't 565 00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:23.460 actually picked up on that aspect, the racial aspect of it at 566 00:26:23.460 --> 00:26:23.700 all. 567 00:26:23.759 --> 00:26:26.700 Having said that, I still maintain that it's not just about the 568 00:26:26.700 --> 00:26:29.460 racial aspect and I think the reason why the doctor is crying at 569 00:26:29.460 --> 00:26:32.940 the end is not because his feelings have been hurt. 570 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.180 It's because of the fact that he feels so utterly sorry for these 571 00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:39.480 people who are quite evidently sailing to their deaths, whether 572 00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.339 it's in an hour or tomorrow, next week. 573 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:45.240 The point is, the sense is these people are just refusing to 574 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:49.980 listen and just sailing off anyway, and he is so he is so 575 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:52.319 frustrated and sad by that fact that they're letting their 576 00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:57.539 prejudices in all their forms completely throw out means that they 577 00:26:57.539 --> 00:26:58.319 throw away their future. 578 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:00.119 Torn. 579 00:27:00.180 --> 00:27:03.539 Again, I think should he did a wonderful job in that scene 580 00:27:03.539 --> 00:27:05.339 displaying a huge range of emotions. 581 00:27:05.400 --> 00:27:08.220 But the other person who I was really very impressed with was 582 00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.640 Millie. 583 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:12.059 And I think that builds from last week where I really got to like 584 00:27:12.059 --> 00:27:14.400 her a lot, like really, really like her. 585 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:17.400 And just her reactions to him in that scene. 586 00:27:17.460 --> 00:27:20.880 And even earlier when with the whole Ricky September thing, which 587 00:27:20.880 --> 00:27:24.000 is the most hilarious thing, when they're, you know, hands off or 588 00:27:24.000 --> 00:27:26.759 whatever they say, or he's hot or whatever, and then she goes very 589 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.000 quiet and the doctor's really engaged and you look at her, she's 590 00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:31.980 like, oh, you know, really into it. 591 00:27:32.039 --> 00:27:35.160 But again, in this scene, there's a real chemistry, I think 592 00:27:35.160 --> 00:27:39.059 between them and her reaction to the doctor and how he's reacting 593 00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:39.960 is wonderful. 594 00:27:40.019 --> 00:27:44.099 So, yeah, I really liked that last thing from both of them. 595 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:48.539 It's almost like she kind of understands what's going on before he 596 00:27:48.539 --> 00:27:53.339 does and like she knows what his reaction is about. 597 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:54.359 You know. 598 00:27:54.420 --> 00:27:56.819 Yeah, she's realised, she's realised just before he has, I think. 599 00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.420 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 600 00:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.480 And so she puts her hand on him and stuff and she's crying as 601 00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:00.839 well. 602 00:28:00.900 --> 00:28:03.000 It's really properly good. 603 00:28:03.059 --> 00:28:03.960 I think she's great. 604 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:06.480 And shooty, of course, you know, just who goes through these range 605 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.900 for motions and there's you, the closer before he does or says 606 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:13.920 anything where he's quivering, you know, like it's, it's really 607 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:14.700 terribly good. 608 00:28:14.759 --> 00:28:16.440 I think he's he's great. 609 00:28:16.619 --> 00:28:20.519 The comparison I wanted to make a 2 to that with that end with the 610 00:28:20.519 --> 00:28:24.119 people going off to their death is the kind of mentality you see 611 00:28:24.119 --> 00:28:25.500 in that film, don't look it up. 612 00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:29.099 Um, with Meryl Streep as the president, we're basically there. 613 00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.079 I mean, again, it's a farce. 614 00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:32.039 It's ridiculous. 615 00:28:32.099 --> 00:28:36.240 But it's that thing where despite the fact that we know that this 616 00:28:36.240 --> 00:28:39.299 asteroid is coming to obliterate the earth, we've all just agreed 617 00:28:39.299 --> 00:28:40.799 that we're just going to pretend it's not happening. 618 00:28:40.859 --> 00:28:43.559 And we're going to deny the reality of it. 619 00:28:43.619 --> 00:28:46.740 And I think there's almost it's that same commentary, I think. 620 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:50.819 The other thing that I think Dot and Bubble does actually do quite 621 00:28:50.819 --> 00:28:54.240 well, and I think we've sort of all obliquely suggested it today 622 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:57.839 was around those, what you might call the sort of the casual 623 00:28:57.839 --> 00:29:00.720 remarks, the casual racism, because it's not, it's not like, you 624 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.859 know, um, it's not like Lindy says, uh, right from the get go, get 625 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:06.059 out of my feed, you're black. 626 00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.660 It's all the other commentaries. she doesn't actually say that. 627 00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:15.480 And it's fascinating and we are all 4 of us white men of a certain 628 00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.559 age who aren't used to that sort of just very casual, very, and 629 00:29:19.559 --> 00:29:22.859 sometimes quite subtle ways that things are expressed to you. 630 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:26.579 And I think actually this episode did actually make some attempt. 631 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:29.880 Maybe successfully, maybe unsuccessfully, but certainly made an 632 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:31.440 attempt to demonstrate that to us. 633 00:29:31.740 --> 00:29:35.940 It's also that generational kind of racism that you get where you 634 00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:40.079 might get someone who's 80 years old who says, I'm not a racist 635 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:42.539 and would declare that and yet they just don't feel comfortable 636 00:29:42.539 --> 00:29:46.859 around people of different racism. they'll cross the they'll cross 637 00:29:46.859 --> 00:29:49.140 to the other side of the street or they'll, you know, et cetera. 638 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:54.480 Or as long as the person in question is on their best behaviour. 639 00:29:54.539 --> 00:29:57.240 It's all good, but as soon as there's one character floor or 640 00:29:57.240 --> 00:29:59.880 something that they don't like that opens the floodgates to 641 00:29:59.880 --> 00:30:00.359 everything else. 642 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:03.660 And yet this person would declare that they are not racist and 643 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:04.259 everything's fine. 644 00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:05.220 Exactly. 645 00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:09.359 Just going back to the social media aspect with the ages because 646 00:30:09.359 --> 00:30:11.460 they're supposed to be, what, between 18 and 27 or something? 647 00:30:11.460 --> 00:30:14.819 17 and 27, right. 648 00:30:14.880 --> 00:30:17.160 I thought it was funny, like, because we've all got their ages 649 00:30:17.160 --> 00:30:20.339 there, but I think the casting agent really needs to kind of think 650 00:30:20.339 --> 00:30:24.240 about this a bit more because if Ricky September is 27, then I'm 651 00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:25.140 then I'm 35. 652 00:30:26.880 --> 00:30:28.799 Actually, 39. 653 00:30:28.980 --> 00:30:33.480 I thought I thought he was actually in that age group. 654 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:36.539 It was the other guy at the end with the longer hair. 655 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:39.119 The long hair, the one who's decided he's going to be leader. 656 00:30:39.180 --> 00:30:40.799 Looked older than that. 657 00:30:40.859 --> 00:30:45.359 But I am glad that I'm 10 years younger than MVP Susan Twist. 658 00:30:46.380 --> 00:30:48.119 She's back. 659 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:53.279 Well, both the weathercaster and Dr. P were older than 27, but 660 00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.019 they might have been computer generated. 661 00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:58.380 I think Dr. P is a computer generation, but God, there is 662 00:30:58.380 --> 00:30:59.400 something wrong with that man's face. 663 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:00.240 The teeth. 664 00:31:00.240 --> 00:31:02.880 I just thought that that had... 665 00:31:02.880 --> 00:31:05.759 He's been artificially enhanced in some form. 666 00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:08.099 It's so great. 667 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:09.240 So good. 668 00:31:09.299 --> 00:31:12.119 All right, well, we do have season twist. 669 00:31:12.180 --> 00:31:14.819 We have next week to look forward to, which is called Rogue, which 670 00:31:14.819 --> 00:31:17.640 will be exciting, which I don't think is by Russell. 671 00:31:17.819 --> 00:31:18.119 Is that right? 672 00:31:18.180 --> 00:31:18.779 That's right. 673 00:31:18.779 --> 00:31:20.279 Different writers. 674 00:31:20.339 --> 00:31:23.759 In fact, I actually think it's really interesting that before they 675 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:27.000 do their Bridgerton episode with the strange approach to race that 676 00:31:27.000 --> 00:31:31.140 Bridgerton has that, like, we never knew if they were going to go 677 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:32.940 there with a black doctor. 678 00:31:33.000 --> 00:31:34.799 They went there with Martha. 679 00:31:34.859 --> 00:31:36.000 They went there with Bill. 680 00:31:36.059 --> 00:31:38.640 Were they ever going to do an episode where the doctor experienced 681 00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:39.240 racism? 682 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:42.240 And, you know, like if you're going to have a cast, a black actor 683 00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:44.519 you know, that's a thing that you should probably do. 684 00:31:44.579 --> 00:31:47.640 But it's funny that we do it in the future episode before going 685 00:31:47.640 --> 00:31:51.299 back to the past where I think maybe we were wondering how that 686 00:31:51.299 --> 00:31:52.380 would play out. 687 00:31:52.440 --> 00:31:54.000 But has everyone seen the trailer? 688 00:31:54.059 --> 00:31:57.240 Well, I've only seen the next time, if that's what you mean. 689 00:31:57.299 --> 00:32:00.119 Yeah, so the fact that they all appear to be owls, really, probably 690 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.799 means that the racial politics thing takes us. secondary role. 691 00:32:05.099 --> 00:32:08.339 I think the racial politics thing, which is one of the reasons why 692 00:32:08.339 --> 00:32:13.019 I think Rosa is a bit unfortunate is because I think when you do 693 00:32:13.019 --> 00:32:16.380 trying to go back to tackle racism in the past, It is so 694 00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:20.819 horrifically awful with people being lynched, et cetera, that it's 695 00:32:20.819 --> 00:32:22.259 just something the show shouldn't really be touching. 696 00:32:22.380 --> 00:32:24.299 So I think it's better if you are going to do the racism thing to 697 00:32:24.299 --> 00:32:26.339 do it in the context of what we have done in dock and bubble and 698 00:32:26.339 --> 00:32:28.079 do it in this pretend future. 699 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:29.339 Do you know what I mean? 700 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:31.319 And when you do go back to the past, when you do go back to the 701 00:32:31.319 --> 00:32:33.299 past, you kind of just pretend it's actually not a thing. 702 00:32:33.359 --> 00:32:34.140 Do you know what I mean? 703 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:38.160 To be our agree, because if you go back to the past, not equipped 704 00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:38.880 to deal with that. 705 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:40.140 Yeah, it's just too awful. 706 00:32:40.200 --> 00:32:40.799 You can't do that. 707 00:32:40.859 --> 00:32:43.019 Yeah, I think that there's a limit to what you can do. 708 00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:45.480 I mean, I do think that what we did with Martha and what we did 709 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:49.079 with Bill, where we just had people expressing racist sentiments 710 00:32:49.079 --> 00:32:52.200 and either being punished for that or not being punished for it 711 00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:54.240 you would be kind of wondering where all that was. 712 00:32:54.720 --> 00:32:58.559 But yes, like the full extent of that. 713 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.619 It's the same reason that when Hitler turns up in the show you 714 00:33:01.619 --> 00:33:02.700 have to put him in a cupboard. 715 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:05.759 You, you know, the show can't quite deal with that. 716 00:33:05.819 --> 00:33:09.900 Well, it's the reason that Doctor 2 in 1967 wouldn't do Douglas 717 00:33:09.900 --> 00:33:13.680 Canfield's Nazi werewolf scripts because that was within the 718 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.220 extreme living memory of people who were watching the show and you 719 00:33:17.220 --> 00:33:19.440 can't just make that into... 720 00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:20.279 Exactly. 721 00:33:20.339 --> 00:33:22.619 All right, I've got some things to plug. 722 00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:28.140 I think you can listen to 500-year diary, which is our triumphant 723 00:33:28.140 --> 00:33:32.700 1st season of Flight through Entirety's spinoff podcast in which 724 00:33:32.700 --> 00:33:36.059 we discuss various new beginnings throughout the show's history 725 00:33:36.059 --> 00:33:38.460 and that's at 500-yeardiary.com. 726 00:33:38.519 --> 00:33:42.119 Our next episode of Flight through Entirety is still not due until 727 00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:46.500 Christmas in July, July the 25th, when we will return with the 728 00:33:46.500 --> 00:33:48.420 return of Dr. Mysterio. 729 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:52.799 And there is, of course, untitled Star Trek Project, for those of 730 00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.859 you who are fans of Enterprise, and I know that you all are. 731 00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.339 Our most recent episode featured a large number of white people 732 00:33:59.339 --> 00:34:03.779 taking over the enterprise and doing some suicide bombing with 733 00:34:03.779 --> 00:34:04.740 hilarious results. 734 00:34:04.799 --> 00:34:07.980 So that's at untitled Star Trek Project.com. 735 00:34:08.039 --> 00:34:09.599 All right. 736 00:34:09.659 --> 00:34:13.139 So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember to 737 00:34:13.139 --> 00:34:15.900 be kind to the Gen Z kids in your life. 738 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.260 They've been putting up with you for such a long time. 739 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.260 No, can they be kind to me, please? 740 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.840 Yes, we're old. 741 00:34:24.960 --> 00:34:26.039 We deserve to be nice. 742 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.159 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 743 00:34:29.219 --> 00:34:30.420 Good night. 744 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.260 Bye bye. 745 00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:32.400 See you soon. 746 00:34:32.460 --> 00:34:35.039 And also you, Gen Z, kids, get off my lawn.