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This transcript was created on 2026-05-02 at 15:32:37

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Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and

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bountiful Human Empire.

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The only Doctor Who flash cast, which is beginning to wonder if

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war is really such a good idea.

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I'm Nathan.

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I'm Brandon.

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I'm pizza.

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And I'm Todd.

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Well, Russell seems to have the week off this week, and so we're

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here with Stephen, who, as well as writing this episode for the

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1st time since, what, 2017, I think, is also executive producer.

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He gets an executive producer credit along with the director

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Julianne Robinson.

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And so I gather that Russell just kind of handed this one over to

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him completely, even more completely than he used to back when he

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was writing silence in the library.

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So how do we think he went in the executive producer's chair, and

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in the writer's chair, for boom?

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Let's start with Brendan.

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So I think he's done really well here.

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And I think Steve, Stephen Moffatt has done what I loved him so

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much for from 2005 to 2008, which is he's just turned in a really

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good single story.

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It's not massively arc driven.

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And also, he's done what I think he does best a lot of the time

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which is he's gone.

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What haven't I done before?

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And he hasn't done a sort of single location story.

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And when he has done stories set in one place, There's still lots

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of sets and lots of action.

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And here, you know, he talks about it in interviews.

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He's like, I wanted, you know, a story where the doctor is

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standing in one place and it's an amazing idea.

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What about you, Tom?

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I liked it a lot, and I liked it even more the 2nd time I watched

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it.

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And I kind of think, you know, as you said, he hasn't written the

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show in a while and he's come in with these 2 new characters and

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uh, he's, he's had a really good stab at it and I think he, I

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think he's done.

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I think he's done a very good job.

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I enjoyed it immensely.

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Peter?

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And if you wanted to do a story about the doctor standing in one

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place.

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He could have just gone back and watched the space museum, you

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know.

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But I did enjoy it.

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I thought it was a big step up from the 1st 2 episodes of the

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season.

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Um, one of which I didn't particularly enjoy and the one which I

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thought was sporadically enjoyable.

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This was a good solid Doctor Who episode.

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And Brendan, you said it's a chance for Steven to do things that

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he hadn't done before.

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There was also plenty of chances foreign students that he had done

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before.

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It felt very, very familiar moffat in many ways.

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And you know, that's not a terrible thing.

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I think Moffat mentioned in his interview with Tom Spielsbury for

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TV choice, I think it was, that there was some consideration given

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to this being the opening episode of the season, and I actually

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think that might have been really good if we'd thrown the doctor

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and Ruby into a tense dramatic situation like this and made them

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kind of bond over it and sort of find their way out of it when

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they didn't particularly know each other.

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But that said, as an episode three, I'm glad it's there.

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Yeah, I'm a massive fan of Moffat and I thought he was really

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great.

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And, you know, it is new ground for him, but as you said, Peter

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it's old ground.

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And if you think about his 1st episode ever, like there's some

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talk and, you know, rule one is Moffat lies, so you can never be

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sure, but there's some talk that this is his final, um, normal

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episode, his final just kind of non-special episode.

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And in that case, um, villain guard is in his 1st episode and the

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problems are caused by out of control ambulances in both stories.

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You know, there's a lot in common a lot that he's going back to

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this time while doing that sort of wild formal experiment, which

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he did from time to time, but, you know, particularly, I think, in

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heaven's sand.

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And he's placed the same or placed very similar constraints on

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himself.

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How do people think that works as an idea?

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We've kind of heard from you, Brendan, but did you want to add

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anything?

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Yeah, in terms of the concept, what I what I love about it is

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we've had so much talk over the last, however long it's been since

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the Disney co-production deal has been announced and we've had so

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much talk about how the budget's increased and Russell has

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specified, yes, the budget is bigger due to Disney money.

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And then Stephen Moffatt comes to Russell with this idea of how

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about we set this story 90% in one gravel pit.

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And, and of course, Russell goes, it's 1983 all over again, you

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know, where, where um, we're chasing around cybermen in a gravel

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quarry.

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Um, but, I think it's important to have a story like this where

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it's this single concept and exploring everything around that

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because I know there was concerns with Doctor Who having Disney

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Money in Disney influence that it might lose its identity of

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trying new things and what have you.

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And so straight away in this season, we've had a musical number

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we've had talking babies and snot monsters, and now we're having a

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story which is like, yes, we know we've got more money than ever

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before, but we're going to put you in a pit and you're going to

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like it.

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It was, to be fair, a pretty expensive gravel pit, wasn't it?

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Yes.

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So it's the volume, isn't it?

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Which is what they shoot things like the Mandalorian and stuff

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on.

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So, um, while a lot of it does just look like a studio, uh, the

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skyscapes and things, which are visible to the actors, I think

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look amazing and are sort of crisp in a way that special effects

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haven't been for the last few years.

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Peter.

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I can't for the life to me really see what they've spent the money

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on this season so far.

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I mean, it always makes me laugh when people say Disney money

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Disney influence, it puts me in mind of Candace Bergen from the

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Sex and City movie where she's talking to Carrie about her wedding

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dress and she's like vogue styling, vogue photography, vogue

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airbrushing just makes me think Disney money, Disney influence

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Disney airbrushing.

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Apparently not.

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I'm yet to see where all this Disney money is gone because the 1st

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2 episodes of the season looked quite cheap to me in many ways.

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I did think this was a very well staged episode and I liked that

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it had the courage of its convictions because you could see that

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this is the kind of thing that they could have done back in the

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classic series.

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He could have had a Peter Davidson 2 parter where he was standing

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a corner of the studio and it was on a time flight style heath and

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would have been done, but they would never have had the courage to

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have done a story like this.

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Likewise, they could have done it in sort of 2008 by going out on

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a night shoot to a quarry for a couple of nights.

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Well, you know, maybe a week or 2 weeks and getting David Tennant

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the flu again.

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Um, and they could have shot it there.

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But they've embraced the new techniques and sort of restricted

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themselves to this.

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And I kind of applauded that.

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I think it's good that they've got the courage to go to small

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scale.

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Todd.

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I love the fact that it was just in that one place and having

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Shoot, he just standing still, like his presence is just

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phenomenal.

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Like when he says honey.

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You know that you're in trouble.

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Reminds you, this is Remington, you know, honey, you know.

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Um, back from someone's nurses, and he just had so many powerful

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moments and quiet moments and just gave him, rather than all

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movement and all that sort of stuff, to distract you, you were

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just focussed, and I really, really adore him.

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And I love the ambulances.

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They remind me of this, the, the survey robot from, um, The

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mysterious planet, really.

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I'm going to say the server robot from the wheel in space.

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I was expecting.

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You know, the service robot from that.

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And all of the landscapes and all that, I thought it looked

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brilliant, you know?

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Doctor Who can now afford to stage its own quarry inside the

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studio?

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amazing.

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I think it's quite funny that like we've had like Stephen as a

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former showrunner and then we've had 6 episodes from Russell and

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then we had 13 episodes um and 2 co-writes with Chipmull. like

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it's been the showrunners showrunners for quite some time.

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But I think that makes you appreciate all their strengths and

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weaknesses even more.

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So, yeah.

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So I'm going to talk about one thing that I think I'm really glad

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to see back and it's something that's been a feature of this era

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ever since the Starbeast, which is having a very definite

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political position.

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And this, I think, is the most political story that we've had in a

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very long time.

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And I'm thinking perhaps since oxygen.

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We haven't had a story as angrily political as this.

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And one of my beefs with the cymbal era is how it didn't want to

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be particularly political.

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And therefore, it was just a little bit less interesting to me.

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But here, like in this era already, we've had a major character

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who is trans and whose transness helps to resolve the plot, we've

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had Drag Queen Story Hour, which is a big culture war, touchstone

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both in America, and here, our drag, Queens, you know, appropriate

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for children's entertainment, and his jinx monsoon to say yes.

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We had a conversation in space babies about abortion, and here we

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have a very, very angry script.

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Not just about militarism, but also about religious faith.

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And I've seen a few people online, a few people of faith who were

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not particularly happy with it.

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But I have to say that I'm glad that the show's aboutness is back

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and I think it's been a long time between drinks.

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What do you think, Brendan?

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Yeah, like, going back to what you said about space babies.

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I wasn't here last week for that.

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And yeah, it struck me the political commentary in that being so

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upfront.

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Whereas, as you say, the tubing lyric could very much sort of

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equivocate on things and and, you know, have Jodie Whittaker just

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sort of ruminate that, oh, isn't this sad?

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and then stare off and the episode ends.

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Um, And yeah, I, I felt the themes in this episode were very well

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explored.

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On the topic of the themes about faith, I'm just trying to find

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something I sent to you earlier today, Nathan, someone on Twitter

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Father Edward Barlow, who summarises the attitude of faith in the

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story as because if faith is a reason to blindly charge into holy

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wars, you can keep it, but if faith is the reason a grieving child

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in a big universe can know that they are loved, then that's an

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entirely different game.

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I think Edward there has nailed it on the head.

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You know, the story is not anti-faith, as I think some people are

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purporting it online.

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It is like anything in the human experience.

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It's how you use the thing, you know, and even though the doctor

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criticises faith at the end.

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He, when he's talking to Splice, you know, he praises her faith.

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And I thought that that moment at the end is in years to come

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going to be regarded as one of shootings defining moments and it's

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not overblown.

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It's not overplayed, and it wouldn't have worked without the

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mission statement of the episode from earlier on.

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The way that he calls Monday faith gal, you know, with that accent

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is so gray.

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And it's the moment where he realises where he hears that she will

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fight and die without proof of any enemy existing, but when it

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comes time to lay down her arms, that's when she needs proof and

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just how incredulous he is about that.

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I just think it was really properly strong.

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Todd?

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It doesn't worry me one way or the other if the show decides to be

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political or not, you know?

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Sometimes it goes further than I'd like.

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Sometimes it doesn't go far enough.

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And I thought, Brendan, summed it up that you have those 2 sort of

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views throughout the episode and I think that's really great.

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Like if you just come in saying it's criticising it, you're wrong

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because the ending disproves that completely.

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And that's the strength of Stephen's writing.

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00:12:53.700 --> 00:12:58.440
I had no particular reaction to that theme of the episode because

246
00:12:58.440 --> 00:13:02.220
I think the classic series, Dealt with it quite well in the face

247
00:13:02.220 --> 00:13:05.039
of evil, where it's just a couple of lines where saying when you

248
00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:09.179
start to have evidence, you stop believing and Piccarriage turns

249
00:13:09.179 --> 00:13:11.100
around and says when you're given evidence, you don't have to

250
00:13:11.100 --> 00:13:11.399
believe.

251
00:13:11.460 --> 00:13:16.379
Um, and also I think the discussion of religion in the Satan pit

252
00:13:16.379 --> 00:13:18.779
for me is really on the money.

253
00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:22.320
I really enjoyed the way that that story approached it.

254
00:13:22.379 --> 00:13:25.320
So this didn't mean much to me, but I'm glad that it was there

255
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.740
like I said.

256
00:13:26.039 --> 00:13:29.879
I thought that the, uh, that the most brutal line was not the one

257
00:13:29.879 --> 00:13:32.639
that everyone's complaining about, but the doctor's observation to

258
00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:38.279
Ruby, that, um, when she says, when she says, but the church isn't

259
00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:42.960
an army, and he says, well, it was, and you're just living in a

260
00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.840
blip, you know, it'll be an army again soon.

261
00:13:45.899 --> 00:13:51.179
And given what's happening in America and how strongly supported

262
00:13:51.179 --> 00:13:53.820
that is by white evangelical Protestants.

263
00:13:53.879 --> 00:13:59.039
I think those are things that the show could profitably say.

264
00:13:59.100 --> 00:14:02.460
And particularly if it has a big American audience, you can kind

265
00:14:02.460 --> 00:14:06.419
of, I think, see both Russell and Stephen looking over their

266
00:14:06.419 --> 00:14:09.659
shoulder at a new American audience, which is why I think, for

267
00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:15.120
instance, that abortion thing appeared in space babies, you know.

268
00:14:15.179 --> 00:14:18.360
So, yeah, like I'm super in favourite.

269
00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:19.620
I'm really happy that it's back.

270
00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:24.480
I somehow think the crossover between us, perspective Doctor Who

271
00:14:24.480 --> 00:14:27.179
audience and evangelicals is probably quite small.

272
00:14:27.240 --> 00:14:29.879
Yeah, getting smaller all the time, probably.

273
00:14:31.740 --> 00:14:36.059
All right, so we've heard a little bit from Todd about how he saw

274
00:14:36.059 --> 00:14:39.539
Amelia and Shooty in this episode.

275
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:41.639
What did you think, Brendan?

276
00:14:42.059 --> 00:14:47.580
Oh, I I am just loving them more and more every episode.

277
00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:52.860
And even even space babies, which I'm currently sitting on a 6 out

278
00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:56.340
of 10, I want to find a reason to give it a 7 out of 10, so on my

279
00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:57.480
next viewing, it might get that.

280
00:14:57.539 --> 00:14:59.759
Can I give you a reason to give it a three?

281
00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:05.519
Because that's where I'm at. back there again.

282
00:15:07.500 --> 00:15:13.740
But even, even with that six, um, I can't really fault 1000000

283
00:15:13.740 --> 00:15:16.559
shooties performance there, and it's just, it's just coming on in

284
00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:22.980
leaps and bounds, particularly the moment where, um, he's trying

285
00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:29.460
to get her to throw him the remains of uh, Splice's dad and she

286
00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:34.379
argues, but not in a sort of Donna Noble kind of way, but in a

287
00:15:34.379 --> 00:15:38.159
really compassionate way of yes, I know it's dangerous, but you're

288
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.360
in danger too, and we face this together because we are mates.

289
00:15:42.419 --> 00:15:47.820
And The hardest thing to do for any new companion is to establish

290
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:52.500
what makes this relationship different. from previous

291
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.220
relationships.

292
00:15:53.220 --> 00:15:56.580
And, you know, I think a lot of us love it when the doctor and

293
00:15:56.580 --> 00:15:59.519
companions are on some kind of equal footing, you know, like

294
00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.500
Romana or Sarah Jane or Donna.

295
00:16:01.559 --> 00:16:06.240
And I feel like Um, 1000000 shoot, he put the characters on equal

296
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.720
footing.

297
00:16:06.779 --> 00:16:12.720
In a different way, in a more human way than has been done before

298
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:15.899
because we have a doctor who has dealt with their trauma.

299
00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:21.299
Um, And we have Ruby, who is, you know, dealing with being adopted

300
00:16:21.299 --> 00:16:24.539
and not being able to find out who her birth parents are.

301
00:16:24.659 --> 00:16:28.679
But at the same time, she's dealing with that in a really sort of

302
00:16:28.679 --> 00:16:30.779
healthy way as far as we can see.

303
00:16:30.840 --> 00:16:34.620
It's just, there's such an energy and a crackle between them.

304
00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:37.019
And they, but they're also just really lovely.

305
00:16:38.039 --> 00:16:41.759
The thing about Shooty's doctor is something that we haven't seen

306
00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:46.200
before in the new series is that he isn't closed in any way.

307
00:16:46.259 --> 00:16:48.059
He is so open.

308
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:52.379
And you know, I think Russell or Moffatt, like in some of the sort

309
00:16:52.379 --> 00:16:56.519
of, um, you know, publicity talks, it's like the doctor has, you

310
00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.779
know, too hearts.

311
00:16:57.779 --> 00:17:00.360
And so he feels everything more keenly than other people.

312
00:17:00.360 --> 00:17:02.100
You kind of think, yeah, no, he doesn't really.

313
00:17:02.159 --> 00:17:05.640
He's kind of, you know, shut down or she is shut down as well.

314
00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:07.319
You know, you don't get that openness.

315
00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:10.619
And there is something really just surprisingly open about

316
00:17:10.619 --> 00:17:11.460
shooty.

317
00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:15.420
And having the 2 of them under stress for the entirety of the

318
00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:20.279
episode means that they get some really, really great material and

319
00:17:20.279 --> 00:17:23.279
he's just terrific. you know I think this is his best performance

320
00:17:23.279 --> 00:17:24.720
so far in the role.

321
00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:29.759
I think he was given some material that was worthy of him in this

322
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:30.119
episode.

323
00:17:30.180 --> 00:17:33.299
I'm not sure he's had all that much so far, but this was the

324
00:17:33.299 --> 00:17:36.180
episode where I saw green shoots and thought that he could turn

325
00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:38.039
out to be a heavyweight doctor.

326
00:17:38.099 --> 00:17:40.920
And I'm looking for more of that this season.

327
00:17:40.980 --> 00:17:42.900
Um, I think.

328
00:17:43.259 --> 00:17:47.579
Ruby is scarily generic for me at the moment.

329
00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:50.819
I think that Millie's doing a reasonable job.

330
00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:54.359
Um, but I'm waiting for her to be given the same kind of material

331
00:17:54.359 --> 00:17:57.299
that, um, shooty has been in this episode.

332
00:17:57.359 --> 00:18:01.079
I just thought this could have been any companion and I sort of

333
00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:07.019
didn't really buy the, The crackle between them, as you said

334
00:18:07.019 --> 00:18:07.500
Brendan.

335
00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.799
I thought that was a little bit absent, but I'm willing to be

336
00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:11.279
impressed.

337
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:12.359
I'm waiting for that to happen.

338
00:18:13.259 --> 00:18:15.180
I agree with you, Peter.

339
00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:19.019
Um, Millie's doing a, okay, or a fine job.

340
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:22.259
I'm just not buying her as much.

341
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:28.140
I really am impressed with shooty and to me, she has, she does

342
00:18:28.140 --> 00:18:31.619
some, she does some of the emotional stuff quite well.

343
00:18:31.680 --> 00:18:36.000
I like that, but other times I just feel, for me, it's the Nicole

344
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:37.980
Kidman effect where I don't buy her.

345
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:43.500
Um, and that's not a bad thing, but I just, I think they've got a

346
00:18:43.500 --> 00:18:44.220
nice dynamic.

347
00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:45.000
Like I do.

348
00:18:45.059 --> 00:18:50.099
Um, I was very impressed with um, the other female guest star

349
00:18:50.099 --> 00:18:50.400
actually.

350
00:18:50.519 --> 00:18:51.839
Yeah, yeah.

351
00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:52.619
Monday.

352
00:18:52.619 --> 00:18:53.220
Monday.

353
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:54.839
And the little girl was good too.

354
00:18:56.160 --> 00:19:01.380
High paced, high paced. phrases you rarely hear.

355
00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:04.920
So, I actually think that the ruby thing is the weakest thing

356
00:19:04.920 --> 00:19:08.220
about the season so far, because when I think about the 3 previous

357
00:19:08.220 --> 00:19:15.119
RTD companions, you have Rose, you have Martha, and you have Donna

358
00:19:15.119 --> 00:19:20.400
and admittedly, we've known them for years now, and they've kind

359
00:19:20.400 --> 00:19:22.980
of, you know, we've lived with them and thought about them for

360
00:19:22.980 --> 00:19:24.240
ages and ages.

361
00:19:24.299 --> 00:19:29.880
But I think they arrived far, far more fully formed than Ruby's

362
00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:30.599
character did.

363
00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:37.859
And I can't help feeling that I'm getting a little bit of Series 7

364
00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:44.880
Clara here where Millie is a mystery and we're not looking at her

365
00:19:44.880 --> 00:19:46.619
as a person.

366
00:19:46.680 --> 00:19:50.099
And so I think Russell has learned some lessons from Moffat.

367
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.779
But maybe this isn't the right one.

368
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:57.599
I think it was telling that we, again, got the mystery that is

369
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.660
like, who is her kin and all that sort of thing, and that's what

370
00:20:00.660 --> 00:20:04.920
she is mystery wrapped in an enigma or whatever those particular

371
00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:08.339
lines are, and perhaps that's coming to the fore a bit more.

372
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:11.640
Calling it now, I think Jinx Fon soon is going to end up being her

373
00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:11.940
father.

374
00:20:12.599 --> 00:20:16.859
Yeah, well, they're little Henry Arbinger's father.

375
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:22.740
So I thought as well, like the idea of having her unconscious for

376
00:20:22.740 --> 00:20:25.259
a 3rd of the episode where this looked like the episode where they

377
00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.779
would get to stop and talk, everything had been at a fairly

378
00:20:27.779 --> 00:20:31.319
breakneck pace in their 1st 3 episodes and I thought, here, we're

379
00:20:31.319 --> 00:20:32.400
going to get some character stuff.

380
00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:35.099
And we do get character stuff in the sense that we get to see how

381
00:20:35.099 --> 00:20:38.220
they react under pressure, you know, not in the sense that they

382
00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:40.380
get to sit and talk about their relationship.

383
00:20:40.440 --> 00:20:42.720
But then having her unconscious at the climax.

384
00:20:42.779 --> 00:20:46.559
You know, one of the problems with the chipel era is that not once

385
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:49.980
does the companion or any of the companions solve the story.

386
00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:51.720
They never save the day.

387
00:20:51.779 --> 00:20:56.279
And that's not true either of Russell or Moffatt.

388
00:20:56.339 --> 00:21:00.119
But Millie's not really getting the hero moments here either.

389
00:21:00.180 --> 00:21:03.599
And I guess that there's always next week.

390
00:21:03.660 --> 00:21:07.680
I suppose, given what the trailer looks like, it's saying.

391
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.519
I think character wise, she's being slightly let down by the

392
00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:12.359
writing so far.

393
00:21:12.420 --> 00:21:16.500
Russell's and Stevens, and I think there's moments for her to

394
00:21:16.500 --> 00:21:20.160
react like a living breathing person where she doesn't.

395
00:21:20.220 --> 00:21:23.160
She comes across as a little bit of a constructed character.

396
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.359
So to give an example this week, where the doctor's just stepped

397
00:21:27.359 --> 00:21:29.759
on the landmine and she's hunting around to do the Harry Sullivan

398
00:21:29.759 --> 00:21:31.319
thing and find rocks put under it.

399
00:21:31.380 --> 00:21:34.859
She sort of pauses to look at the, you know, the fact she's on an

400
00:21:34.859 --> 00:21:38.039
alien world with wonder in her eyes and I just didn't buy that.

401
00:21:38.099 --> 00:21:41.099
There was another way that that could have been written or maybe

402
00:21:41.099 --> 00:21:45.000
performed using the same script, which would show the urgency and

403
00:21:45.000 --> 00:21:47.160
the panic at the same time as she was getting that.

404
00:21:47.220 --> 00:21:51.240
I didn't quite buy that a regular person would just stop their

405
00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:54.059
hunt or something to stop their friend being blown up to admire

406
00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:54.420
the sky.

407
00:21:54.720 --> 00:21:59.279
I loved the doctor's reaction to that, though, where he kind of

408
00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:01.019
goes, oh yes, sorry.

409
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.480
That's what this is like for you, isn't it?

410
00:22:03.539 --> 00:22:06.960
You know, that he stops and drinks in her reaction to being on a

411
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.680
on an alien planet for the 1st time and stops thinking about the

412
00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:15.359
very urgent landmine that he's standing on for a second.

413
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:19.799
Let's talk about what we expect to come.

414
00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:24.359
We had Susan Twist at the end, another twist at the end this

415
00:22:24.359 --> 00:22:24.779
week.

416
00:22:24.839 --> 00:22:29.640
And Russell did announce that they'd been in touch with equity and

417
00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:34.140
that there weren't really very many actors and so they just keep

418
00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:37.500
employing Susan because they really like her and they think she's

419
00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:37.980
really good.

420
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.819
It's just possible that he's not telling the truth.

421
00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:46.559
See, that was in the envision commentary, which was available as

422
00:22:46.559 --> 00:22:46.799
well.

423
00:22:46.859 --> 00:22:50.700
He was explaining why Susan Twist was appearing quite so often.

424
00:22:50.940 --> 00:22:51.720
And this is her.

425
00:22:51.779 --> 00:22:53.819
I was wondering why they were getting the queen to play the

426
00:22:53.819 --> 00:22:56.400
ambulance for a while, you know, but...

427
00:22:57.539 --> 00:23:01.019
She's very good Yeah, yeah, she is great.

428
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:02.940
You can see why they keep asking her back.

429
00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.799
And look, you know, I think there is some truth to what Russell is

430
00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.539
saying because all of all of the ladies who sort of match Susan's

431
00:23:12.539 --> 00:23:15.960
description inequity are currently filming the last season of Vera

432
00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:22.440
where the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th Vera, along with the war era, team

433
00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.799
up to tackle the AI reconstruction of Inspector Morse.

434
00:23:25.920 --> 00:23:26.519
Right.

435
00:23:26.579 --> 00:23:26.880
Okay.

436
00:23:26.940 --> 00:23:27.720
Well, that explains it.

437
00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:30.900
And look, I don't think anyone listening has watched Vera, so you

438
00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:31.980
can't tell me I'm wrong.

439
00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:37.859
So what do we think is coming from all of this is there's just no

440
00:23:37.859 --> 00:23:39.000
way of saying, I think.

441
00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:41.039
There's so much stuff in the air.

442
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:43.140
I've got no idea.

443
00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:46.980
I'm hoping that we're building something really big and I hope

444
00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:51.240
that we are because given that that's 8 episodes in the season and

445
00:23:51.240 --> 00:23:53.400
the last story is a 2 parter.

446
00:23:53.460 --> 00:23:56.279
I'm really hoping there's going to be some kind of serious

447
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:57.359
defining event there.

448
00:23:57.420 --> 00:24:02.519
Um, if it turns out that all of these little hints that are

449
00:24:02.519 --> 00:24:07.019
dropped in and the discussion of Susan Foreman last week, um, and

450
00:24:07.019 --> 00:24:11.339
the all stuff about Millie, if it turns out there is more there, um

451
00:24:11.339 --> 00:24:13.920
then I'm quite willing to go back and say, oh, okay, I

452
00:24:13.920 --> 00:24:17.099
misrepresented all of these things where I thought maybe she

453
00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:19.259
wasn't a fully constructed human being or whatever.

454
00:24:19.319 --> 00:24:21.299
She's not a fully constructed human being.

455
00:24:21.359 --> 00:24:22.980
But I am looking forward to finding out.

456
00:24:23.220 --> 00:24:25.259
That's to be a payoff.

457
00:24:25.319 --> 00:24:28.680
If the payoff is there, then I think it will just tie in these

458
00:24:28.680 --> 00:24:32.220
episodes and improve them probably in the long run.

459
00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:35.880
We can't just do the hybrid was just the friends we made along the

460
00:24:35.880 --> 00:24:37.079
way again, I think.

461
00:24:38.819 --> 00:24:44.099
Well, I was just thinking back to 2005 and I remember, because, you

462
00:24:44.099 --> 00:24:49.500
know, this is in the age before Twitter, on, um, Gallifrey Base, or

463
00:24:49.500 --> 00:24:52.500
possibly outpost gallifrey, as it was, then, there were heated

464
00:24:52.500 --> 00:24:54.839
debates as to whether Bad Wolf meant anything.

465
00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:01.619
You know, if it was just an inside joke for fans to go, oh, they're

466
00:25:01.619 --> 00:25:04.259
using the words bad wolf over and over again, but a very vehement

467
00:25:04.259 --> 00:25:07.559
proportion, saying, no, there is no plot.

468
00:25:07.619 --> 00:25:11.039
There's nothing going on. production company in Wales, isn't it?

469
00:25:11.099 --> 00:25:11.640
Yeah.

470
00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:17.579
As for what to expect, I've had a realisation of an idea Russell

471
00:25:17.579 --> 00:25:20.339
abandoned that could be happening, but I kind of want to keep my

472
00:25:20.339 --> 00:25:23.400
powder drowned because if other people haven't thought of it.

473
00:25:23.460 --> 00:25:24.599
I want to put it in their heads.

474
00:25:24.660 --> 00:25:29.460
So come back to me on episode 8 and see if, see if I'm right

475
00:25:29.460 --> 00:25:29.700
there.

476
00:25:29.759 --> 00:25:33.299
But I have noticed a pattern that has emerged over the last 3

477
00:25:33.299 --> 00:25:33.779
episodes.

478
00:25:33.839 --> 00:25:38.400
So space babies are by definition, unearthly children.

479
00:25:38.460 --> 00:25:40.140
Oh my god.

480
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:43.200
The devil's chord showed us a dead planet.

481
00:25:43.680 --> 00:25:47.400
This week, the doctor was on the edge of destruction.

482
00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:49.140
So what's next week?

483
00:25:49.200 --> 00:25:52.259
Doesn't go well for episode 7 with the sensorize.

484
00:25:53.700 --> 00:25:55.680
What is the next story?

485
00:25:55.740 --> 00:25:58.259
Yeah, six, nine. 73 yards.

486
00:25:58.319 --> 00:25:59.579
Marco Polo.

487
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:03.599
So, um, maybe the doctor will take a nap.

488
00:26:05.099 --> 00:26:09.900
Or come back and compare your theory to mine when after upsetting

489
00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:12.240
we're all gathered to talk about how there was a surprise

490
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.119
regeneration to the 16th doctor, Susan Twist.

491
00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:18.359
There's always a twist of the end.

492
00:26:18.420 --> 00:26:20.880
So she was the doctor all the time.

493
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:25.200
The lady who played Monday.

494
00:26:25.259 --> 00:26:28.319
She's the next companion, is that correct?

495
00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.539
Yeah, that's right.

496
00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:32.220
So she's Verada Sefu.

497
00:26:32.279 --> 00:26:36.839
We don't know yet whether this is an army of ghosts thing or an

498
00:26:36.839 --> 00:26:38.519
asylum of the Daleks thing.

499
00:26:38.579 --> 00:26:41.880
I suspect it's an army of ghosts thing.

500
00:26:41.940 --> 00:26:46.920
I think that they probably saw her performance this week and when

501
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.140
the next companion thing came up.

502
00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:51.180
They said, let's get Verada back in.

503
00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:52.859
She's in.

504
00:26:52.859 --> 00:26:56.279
Only because Susan Twist wasn't available, probably. right.

505
00:26:56.339 --> 00:26:59.940
The Vera people had finally got hold of her, I think, by that

506
00:26:59.940 --> 00:27:00.180
point.

507
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:05.099
She, she's, of course, in Andor, and he's very good in that.

508
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:05.759
Yeah.

509
00:27:05.819 --> 00:27:06.599
Oh, you should.

510
00:27:06.660 --> 00:27:07.259
It's excellent.

511
00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:07.799
Yeah.

512
00:27:07.799 --> 00:27:10.799
It was funny because like at the beginning of the episode, I just

513
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.200
thought, well, the camera really likes her.

514
00:27:13.259 --> 00:27:16.799
And then when I rewatched it, like I was almost brought to tears

515
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:22.319
by her reaction to her love interest, non-love interest, and I

516
00:27:22.319 --> 00:27:25.500
just really loved her performance and the emotion in her face.

517
00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.720
It's something I took away from it quite.

518
00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:31.259
I just really thought, oh, she's really human.

519
00:27:31.319 --> 00:27:32.460
Her scenes were shooting.

520
00:27:32.519 --> 00:27:36.059
I just thought the conversation was really natural and very

521
00:27:36.059 --> 00:27:36.420
strong.

522
00:27:37.859 --> 00:27:41.759
She, in fact, almost saved one of the things I hate most about

523
00:27:41.759 --> 00:27:45.059
Moffatt's writing, which is the power of parental love saving the

524
00:27:45.059 --> 00:27:46.980
universe, so I'll give her credit to that.

525
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:52.740
Well, he did it in his 1st episode for the show. as well. many in

526
00:27:52.740 --> 00:27:53.099
between.

527
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:59.099
All right, so it's time for us to plug a few things. 500-year

528
00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:02.220
diary finished its 1st season on Sunday.

529
00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:06.599
So there's 6 episodes of that for you to listen to on new

530
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:10.500
beginnings in Doctor Who, and it's spinoff, so you can find that

531
00:28:10.500 --> 00:28:12.660
at 500-yeardiary.com.

532
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:16.980
Uh, Untitled Star Trek project is continuing every week.

533
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:21.660
Last week we did one of my absolute favourite Star Trek. episodes

534
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:26.579
ever, disaster, which obviously has the most superb Marina Syrtis

535
00:28:26.579 --> 00:28:27.359
hero moment.

536
00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:31.980
So you can go back and listen to that and the other 109 episodes

537
00:28:31.980 --> 00:28:33.779
of Untitled Star Trek Project.

538
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:38.039
And Brendan, I believe, released an episode last night as well.

539
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:44.460
Yes, so the latest episode of the BJBJ game show is now out on my

540
00:28:44.460 --> 00:28:48.059
husband's suggested game, which is Catquest.

541
00:28:48.119 --> 00:28:51.599
I'd also just like to drop in here My co-host over on that show, BJ

542
00:28:51.599 --> 00:28:54.779
is enjoying the new series of Doctor Who, and she was very

543
00:28:54.779 --> 00:28:58.259
grateful that I didn't tell her beforehand that Boom was written

544
00:28:58.259 --> 00:29:00.779
by Stephen Moffatt because she said she really enjoyed it, but

545
00:29:00.779 --> 00:29:02.279
that might have prejudiced her opinion.

546
00:29:02.339 --> 00:29:05.220
She's not the biggest fan of Moffat.

547
00:29:05.700 --> 00:29:11.579
And last week, we also released the 3rd episode of The Three

548
00:29:11.099 --> 00:29:14.460
handed Game, finishing off our theme of Reach for the Stars, with

549
00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:17.519
the Honour Blackman episode, The White Dwarf.

550
00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:20.160
Which hand did you reach to the Stars?

551
00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:22.200
First one, then the other.

552
00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:24.119
And then the third.

553
00:29:24.180 --> 00:29:25.200
And then the 3rd.

554
00:29:25.259 --> 00:29:27.119
It's not a good night.

555
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:30.119
All right.

556
00:29:30.180 --> 00:29:33.180
Well, in that case, all that remains is for me to say, until next

557
00:29:33.180 --> 00:29:35.940
time, look up an Arundel tomb by Philip Larkin.

558
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.420
It's good.

559
00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:39.240
You'll like it, and by the time you hear this, it'll probably have

560
00:29:39.240 --> 00:29:40.799
its own TARDIS wiki page.

561
00:29:40.859 --> 00:29:43.440
Thank you very much for listening and good night.

562
00:29:43.500 --> 00:29:44.579
Good night.

563
00:29:44.700 --> 00:29:45.779
Good night.

564
00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:47.099
See you soon.