WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 11:57:59 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:13.199 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flashcast which always says space restaurant or space champagne or space, you know, hat. 2 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:15.419 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:16.320 I'm Todd. 4 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:17.339 I am James. 5 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:18.480 I'm Peter. 6 00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:19.980 And I'm Simon. 7 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:29.460 Well, we are here to talk about the 2 Doctor Who episodes that screen for the 1st time, just a day or so ago. 8 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:38.520 The 1st time ever, I think that 2 Doctor Who episodes have debuted on the same day, certainly the 1st time that 2 stories have debuted on the same day. 9 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:47.340 So an exciting moment only previously achieved by Torchwood series one, which actually did the same thing. 10 00:00:47.759 --> 00:01:02.520 So let's start with episode one or possibly episode two, who can possibly say Space Babies, which is written by Russell T. Davis and directed by Julianne Robinson, who we be seeing again next week. 11 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:21.659 Let's start by talking about something perhaps, perhaps the least controversial aspect of the episode, which is how do we think this went reintroducing the regulars and the premise of the show to a new audience and to an old audience? 12 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.060 Let's start, perhaps, with pizza. 13 00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:29.400 I mean, I think it did a fairly good job of introducing the show to a new audience. 14 00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:32.219 My question is, what audience is that? 15 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:33.959 Because I don't think it's aimed at me. 16 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:42.120 And I don't think it's aimed at fans who might have been fans of the original series because this feels like stretch too far for me. 17 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:47.819 Whereas I can draw a direct line between something like partners in crime and something like City of Death. 18 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:52.140 I can't draw a line between this and any previous stock 2 that I was a fan of. 19 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:53.579 Just to expand on that. 20 00:01:53.640 --> 00:02:04.560 I mean, I find it odd the way it starts because if the purpose and we're told the purpose of this is to introduce Doctor Who to a new audience through the Disney streaming platform worldwide. 21 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:19.500 And so the assumption is when I was watching it, even more so than the Churchill and Ruby Road, and certainly more so than the Starbase, was that we were introducing the show in Globo to an entirely potentially an entirely new audience. 22 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:30.120 And I just cannot get past how bad a job they did of that with all this exposition that made the tele movie, the 1996 telemovie look restrained. 23 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.520 How does that actually introduce the regulars to a new audience? 24 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:45.719 This kind of bizarre info dump that the doctor manages to kind of almost breathlessly dish out about basically the last 61 years of the show. 25 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:47.699 It's bizarre. 26 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:49.919 And dare I suggest inept? 27 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:55.259 Can I just say, though, that it's almost exactly beat for beat what we do in the end of the world. 28 00:02:55.500 --> 00:03:00.479 And because we don't have a 13 episode series. 29 00:03:01.259 --> 00:03:05.340 We want to get this out of the way, I think. 30 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.759 And so it is, why do we need to get out of the way? 31 00:03:08.819 --> 00:03:10.800 Why talk about it at all? 32 00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:12.719 Why bring, it's not the end of the world. 33 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:15.960 The end of the world had a few little bits and they were spread throughout the episode. 34 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:26.219 This was like, the script editor suddenly realised that they needed to fill in the audience, and they quickly wrote a scene that the regulars performed in the bit of studio because they had 5 minutes to go before 10 o'clock. 35 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:27.900 That's what it wreaks of for me. 36 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:33.060 And for a show which has got so much money behind it and so much time spent on it. 37 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:34.500 I find it. 38 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.060 I just find it perplexing. 39 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:40.319 I think that actually there was an edict from Disney. 40 00:03:40.379 --> 00:03:47.759 I'm told that Disney wanted Russell to include more of introducing the show to a general audience, but I do agree with Simon. 41 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:51.479 I think it could have been done in a slightly better way than info dump in one scene. 42 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:59.819 And also, I do wonder if there was more interesting way to do it because you could get away with it in the end of the world because there was a generational gap there. 43 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:02.939 Doctor Who hadn't been on television for 15 years. 44 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:09.719 Whereas I think Doctor Who globally is a known phenomenon now, and the basics of it are known pretty well. 45 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:14.639 So I understand getting it out of the way quickly, but it was done quite inelegantly, I think. 46 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.019 Oh, okay. 47 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:17.339 Todd. 48 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:25.680 I kind of sit somewhere towards what both Peter and Simon are saying, it was a bit of a list. 49 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.560 The Rani adopted genocide, Gallifrey. 50 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:29.879 Last of the Time Lords. 51 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:37.319 We then had other things like, I liked the fact that she looked out onto a whole new world, but we did the whole, here's my phone again. 52 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:47.579 We did the whole stepping on a butterfly like they done with Peter Capaldi and Pearl Mackey, but redone. 53 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:52.800 We did at the end, we did the whole scan of Millie's character, like they done with Amy. 54 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:57.360 So I saw all of those things in there and it didn't necessarily worry me too much. 55 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:01.920 I kind of was there going, okay, this seems to be quite forced onto us. 56 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:02.939 Is this the right direction? 57 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.879 Are we just going to try and get rid of it because we've got 8 episodes? 58 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.160 Okay, that's the way they were going. 59 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:11.160 So I didn't necessarily really dislike it. 60 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:12.779 I didn't really, really love it. 61 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:14.579 It was just there and it happened. 62 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:18.120 Yeah, look, I mean, I see what you're saying. 63 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:29.040 Um, I probably am a little more forgiving of that because I think there's actually often that is a way that um, The generations younger than us talk. 64 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:32.279 There is a lot of information. 65 00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:34.620 There's a lot of quick talk and there's a lot of info dumping. 66 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:41.819 Um, like what we might see as inelegant scriptwriting actually might be a deliberate choice. 67 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:48.300 I also thought, I mean, getting away from how we felt about the list of things. 68 00:05:48.360 --> 00:06:19.379 What I found quite moving was how differently the idea that the doctor's people have been wiped out and there's been a genocide against them. comes across when it's coming from a Rwandan man. like someone who has experienced that in their own life as opposed to some old white guy. going on and on about, oh, all my people are dead. 69 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.060 It hits differently. 70 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:29.399 Um, that's not necessarily a, I mean, I, I, I think that has to be a deliberate choice on the part of Russell. 71 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:37.439 I mean, there's no way that this is not a deliberate choice and there's no way that this is has got out of Russell's control. 72 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:45.000 And I don't think that there's actually all that much information delivered in those 10 minutes or so. 73 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:53.579 And what we get as new information as some longtime viewers is some idea of how the show is now going to treat those issues. 74 00:06:53.579 --> 00:07:02.759 And what it is going to do with those issues now is mention them without being all overwrought and in your face about them. 75 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:04.560 And I think that's a relief. 76 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:11.160 It's kind of something that I sort of expected when Chibnall took over and it looked like we were going to leave that stuff behind. 77 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:14.879 But it now does look like we're properly leaving that stuff behind. 78 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:18.060 And so I thought that those scenes were charming. 79 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:21.060 I think it gave us a chance to see the 2 leads talking about something. 80 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.300 I don't know what else they were going to talk about at that point. 81 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:34.199 We got to see a pretty impressive visual with the dinosaurs and stuff like that, which was kind of fun and a bit of a weird gag and things like that. 82 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:41.220 Like, I think all of that kind of works, and it is the choice that he made the 1st time round. 83 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.819 And so I think, you know, every 20 years you're allowed one of these. 84 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:56.759 I understand the imperative, and I know that you've got to introduce concepts like, um, we'll, uh, Millie be able to talk to her, um, mother and all of that, but it was beat for beat the same as the end of the world. 85 00:07:56.819 --> 00:08:05.279 And I remember in the end of the world feeling that was a really interesting way to approach it where the doctor would zap her phone and she was able to speak in real time to Jackie. 86 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:08.339 Jerose was able to speak real time to Jackie back home. 87 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.899 And it was quite an affecting scene. 88 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:14.759 I just wondered if we could have done it a slightly different way because this was exactly the same scene. 89 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:23.040 He didn't manage to do it a different way in series 3, to be fair, he does something fairly similar as well with Martha's phone. 90 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.459 So maybe there aren't that many ways that that can be done. 91 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.759 I do agree with you about the last of the time on stuff. 92 00:08:29.819 --> 00:08:31.740 Like it was mentioned, but he didn't dwell on it. 93 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.139 So I was quite pleased about that. 94 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:48.899 It was more them connecting over things and her taking on board where he's coming from, and I did get that from the episode, and I did like her reactions to some of the things that he had to say without her overplaying it or being deeply distressed. 95 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.639 Yeah, yeah. 96 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:54.659 I think that's being handled very well in both episodes as it as it happens. 97 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:57.480 Um, I have to agree on that. 98 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:05.340 It's very, um, none of none of that sort of... interaction between those 2 cast members feels forced. 99 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:18.480 It feels like they get they do get on behind the scenes and and there were moments in this and the next episode of sort of a genuine kind of her responding to his pain. 100 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:23.159 I just have to say the whole thing about drama is you show, don't tell. 101 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:25.559 I'm not saying this because I didn't like it. 102 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:29.519 I'm saying this because I think it is, I'm genuinely think it was bad. 103 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:31.139 It was badly written. 104 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.580 There was nothing elegant. 105 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.980 There was nothing sophisticated about the way he did this. 106 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:40.919 And I don't mind, look, I don't mind the fact that you repeat things from end of the world and repeat things from other things. 107 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:42.419 There's going to be stuff like that. 108 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:50.639 I just think it is, it is a very peculiar choice from some, from people who I believe should know a lot better and that's kind of where I'm coming from. 109 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:52.200 I'm perplexed. anyway. 110 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:52.980 All right. 111 00:09:53.039 --> 00:10:00.899 So it's time to talk about something that I think everyone will be behind, which is a baby farm run by babies. 112 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:11.220 I'm a big fan of babies, I have to say, and I'm sure that everyone else here will agree with me that this was harmless fun. 113 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:14.279 It would have looked much better, I think, if they were all shimmer on babies. 114 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:24.059 It was like, can I, yeah, I think it's like someone. in 1974 saying, yes, Barry, we can do dinosaurs realistically. 115 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.279 Oh, but you can't think. 116 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:30.000 You can't think that they are intending to do that realistically. 117 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:38.460 I think that absolutely what they were going for was the incredibly off putting weirdness of what we ended up getting. 118 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:40.919 With their mouths and their speech. 119 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:41.639 Yes, absolutely. 120 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:42.360 I just... 121 00:10:42.419 --> 00:10:48.899 I was just going, this is bizarre. and I, and I'm not, I don't know if I'm buying it. 122 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:49.860 I don't know how I feel. 123 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:50.940 I'm not connecting with it. 124 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.279 I struggled through all of that. 125 00:10:53.340 --> 00:11:02.580 I think Eric, the incredibly concerned, weird looking baby is the absolute MVP in this. 126 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:09.059 I can't believe that he wouldn't have been named after another notorious baby on the Dog 2 production team, Eric Seaward. 127 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:10.740 Probably. 128 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:26.519 But, um, like, all of that stuff is absolutely preposterous, and it is a little bit like, I think, the, um, you know, maybe the adipose or something like that, where we had sort of little baby fat people and stuff. 129 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:32.100 Um, but obviously far, far further down the uncanny valley, I think. 130 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:42.899 I did have to say that I just thought, Eric, with his little toy sword heading down to attack, the giant bogey man at the bottom was pretty great. 131 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:50.460 But yes, it does seem very much designed to kind of put people off in some ways. 132 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.100 So there's at least one Shimmeron baby in this. 133 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:54.779 Downstairs. 134 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:59.039 I can't believe that we've had more than one monster made out of boogers. 135 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:00.960 A different type of booger. 136 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:02.580 That's true. 137 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:03.480 Just awful. 138 00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:14.820 Look, I didn't, look, I'm prepared to try anything when it comes to Doctor Who and, you know, you have to be able to argue that anything's potentially possible and you can take the show wherever you want. 139 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:25.379 But I just thought that this was just a bridge too far, not necessarily even in the concept, just the puerile way the whole thing is executed. 140 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:31.259 I just found it beyond childish beyond it, I suppose the immaturity level. 141 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.059 It's just too much. 142 00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:38.820 I kind of understand what it's going for because the vibe is not that dissimilar from season 24. 143 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:46.080 And so I sat there watching it, trying to work out why I enjoy great suedes of season 24, but I wasn't necessarily enjoying this. 144 00:12:46.139 --> 00:13:04.500 Um, it feels, and the next episode as well, have a feeling of Delta and the Bannerman about them, where it's sort of knowingly camp and fun, and yet Delta and the Bannerman also has realistic characters to engage with and um, a structure that tells a story. 145 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.299 Whereas I felt from this that it didn't. 146 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:11.220 It felt like the, it felt like the campness and the weirdness was the end in itself. 147 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.200 And so maybe that's what I have problem with. 148 00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:14.340 Yeah, exactly. 149 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:15.480 I think Peter, you're absolutely right. 150 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:18.960 It's the fact that rather than it just being the way it happened to be made. 151 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:29.279 It is like they're kind of striving for that at the get go, and that means that you end up with this this unbelievably shallow thing that I'm not even sure who the hell this is being aimed at. 152 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.080 I'm yeah. 153 00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:45.659 See, you know, one of the things that I was sort of acutely aware of, because I have heard people, you know, horrified by these 2 episodes, is that acute sense of fan embarrassment that we all suffer from. 154 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.759 You know, we're watching this and we wonder who comes in. 155 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.720 We wonder what happens when someone comes in and sees us doing that. 156 00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:54.240 And we've talked about that on flights or entirety. 157 00:13:54.299 --> 00:14:09.299 And of course, this, I think, is much less likely to elicit fan embarrassment than a bunch of robots in a room talking about things or, you know, the, um, that French and Saunders sketch, you know, on the trial of a timeline set. 158 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:10.320 Yeah, the Sanurians. 159 00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:11.879 Turn come back, sea breaks. 160 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.460 Yeah, no, no. 161 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:15.480 That sort of stuff. 162 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:16.620 I have to violently disagree. 163 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:18.360 That sort of stuff, I think, is embarrassing. 164 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:27.899 I don't think you get the sense from like TV reviewers and stuff who are writing explicitly for the not we, that this is a bridge too far for them. 165 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.080 This is the sort of thing that only Doctor Who could do. 166 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.659 Maybe no one should try it. 167 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.759 It might be the take home lesson from this. 168 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:41.279 But for me, in fact, I think it's the more traditional of the 2 episodes. 169 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:48.179 You know, you have a base, there's a computer, the people have been abandoned and they don't know why. 170 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:49.799 There's a monster downstairs. 171 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:57.480 You know, we we explore, we find out the nature of the monster, we discover the monster's not so terrible after all, and we decide to save it. 172 00:14:57.539 --> 00:15:02.460 Like all of those beats seem to me to be very, very traditionally Doctor Who. 173 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:11.700 So a lot of the purpose of this episode is to establish what sort of thing Doctor Who does, but marrying it to what is an extremely high concept. 174 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:21.179 Yeah, I mean, when you express it like that, I agree that if you express it in those terms, yes, those are traditional sort of Doctor Who tropes, form of a better word. 175 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:33.240 But I think the way the way it's done, and I think this comes back to what we talked about a lot, is that I think too many of the makers of the current show, we're embarrassed by being a Doctor Who fan when they were 12 and 14 because it was the most uncool thing to be. 176 00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:45.419 And so rather than fix the failures of the original series and make it so that when the robots are talking to each other in the room and when the cellular ends are on trial in the front of time, whatever the hell it is, it looks better, it sounds better. 177 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.980 It's done in a better way. 178 00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:57.960 Whereas what they've decided to do instead is to try and say, and this is why the reviewer is writing for the not we, write, you know, say, oh, you know, this is just Doctor Who being bonkers and mad because that's what it always was. 179 00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:01.679 No, it was not bonkers and Maz, deliberately. 180 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:09.659 It became bonkers and mad from time to time because of various failures, um, often because of over the top people who happened to be in it or whatever else it was. 181 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.539 And instead they decided because they're leaning into that. 182 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:23.399 I actually think that they are risking alienating, particularly with this episode, but also with the next episode, of alienating any Doctor Who fan with any standing. 183 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:46.860 Now, if they want to do that, fine, but I just don't understand how that then appeals to another generation, who are experiencing, even as children, like, even if you express it as a children's drama or a family show, experiencing stuff, which is so much more interesting and mature and thoughtful and has got a message and so on, but rather than this, just nonsense. 184 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:56.820 I'm not entirely sure it's the fan gene thing either, because I have, myself, quite a high tolerance for whimsy and weirdness and camp and Doctor Who. 185 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.139 You know, I love Time and the Rani. 186 00:16:58.259 --> 00:17:01.799 I think time and the only is genuinely extremely enjoyable and in places rather good. 187 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.380 Um, and so I don't... 188 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.740 I know I'm out on a limb, I know. 189 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:14.279 But I wouldn't be embarrassed by someone else watching it and walking and by someone else walking in and watching this. 190 00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:19.920 I was a bit embarrassed watching this and I don't think it was the visual of the babies. 191 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:25.319 I don't think it was the uncanny valleyness of that and the weird idea of having babies. 192 00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:30.299 It's just that it didn't really work. didn't seem to be in service of anything. 193 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:35.819 It just seemed to be there as a weird visual and yet as a gimmick as a gimmick. right. 194 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:40.799 And hearing babies talk constantly is sort of not what I tune in to Doctor Who for at all. 195 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:58.859 I think we'll get they when Flight Through Entirety comes around because I think there are all sorts of things to talk about when it comes to kind of the gay experience and babies and that Russell, you know, that Russell is probably coming from a particular place here. 196 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:04.859 But certainly the off putting this of the baby strikes me as something that's absolutely intentional. 197 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:06.180 Yes. 198 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.839 I guess for me, I didn't connect with it. 199 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:11.279 I found it embarrassing. 200 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:18.299 The way in which I originally found Paradise Towers or Time in the Rani, all Joshua and the Badman embarrassing. 201 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:22.319 I'd rather go and watch those episodes than have to sit through this episode again. 202 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:23.519 That's how I feel. 203 00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:37.500 You see, I was actually quite excited about the prospect of watching these 2 episodes again today, uh, in a way that I wasn't that I haven't really been very much for the last few years. 204 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:58.380 Like, it just seemed to me that this is absolutely just here not to tell a particularly sophisticated story in itself, but to just reintroduce the show as a concept, and it absolutely does that, I think, in a way that, you know, previous Russell episode ones have done. 205 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:01.799 So I'm kind of here for it, I think. 206 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:24.660 I actually was quite looking forward to watching them again today and I actually enjoyed them a hell of a lot more the 2nd time round because I was expecting what was coming and could appreciate it or how different it was from what has been done at various times over the last 20 years. 207 00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:40.799 Like, I think it, it's trying to be different and trying to approach the concept of show differently and trying to push the boundaries, but it can do visually and in terms of storytelling with the 2nd episode, which we'll get to. 208 00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:43.740 I actually really enjoyed them. 209 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:51.779 I, I, I'm not saying there weren't out there flaws and I agree with a lot of what you're all saying, but I didn't find that took me out of the drama. 210 00:19:52.140 --> 00:20:02.039 I just have to say that I just think Russell has done the reintroduction of the show a number of times and every single time he's got it right. 211 00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.539 And this time I just, this is the one I just don't connect with at all. 212 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:18.839 I will say that I think that if this was meant to be a reintroduction to the show to a wider audience, I don't get the impression, and I'm crossing my fingers, that this is the model for the show going forward. 213 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:22.319 So I don't think this episode is what the show is going to be every week. 214 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:33.539 So it seems to me a strange idea to bring in a whole new viewership and then deliver them space babies when space babies is quite far removed from what Doctor Who does most of the time. 215 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:44.819 Well, I think that probably what we're expecting is 8 episodes, all of which are substantially different from one another in tone and subject matter and appearance. 216 00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.279 Is that what a new audience is expecting though? 217 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:55.740 I don't know, but that is what Doctor Who tends to deliver when it has enough money to do that, is something basically different every week. 218 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:03.660 And although the previous Russell T. Davis era, we said we found he kind of made the same season 4 times. 219 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:11.460 Within each variation of that season, we went from place to place to place and did quite different things from week to week. 220 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:23.220 And I think that Modern Doctor Who, that Doctor Who that can afford to build new sets every week, um, does that, you know, and that's very much part of what it's here for. 221 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.140 But this had the structure. 222 00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:29.339 I think that I enumerated before, which I think is the structure of a Doctor Who episode. 223 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.240 So it's establishing that, but in a sort of high concept way. 224 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:41.339 Having said that, parts of this set are cannibalised from, well, blue yonder. 225 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:44.759 Here, I say. 226 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:48.660 And you know, that's the thing. 227 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.559 It not just about Russell's way of making Doctor Who because I found things to enjoy. 228 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:58.140 And in many cases, very much enjoy in the Starbeast, wild blue yonder, and the giggle. 229 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:05.640 It's just really with the church on Ruby Road and Starbabies that I felt like the series was getting right away from me. 230 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:10.140 And so I've no doubt that that was an artistic and stylistic choice. 231 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.839 I just can't quite fathom what's behind it. 232 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:21.119 Yeah, I mean, I was never a huge fan of the 1st Russell T. Davies era, but I did appreciate a lot of it, and I thought he was fine. 233 00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:22.920 There was some great, great episodes. 234 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:24.900 Some of the greatest series has ever produced, I felt. 235 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.799 I have criticisms of it, but you know, that's that's being Doctor Who fan. 236 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:34.859 And I was terribly anxious about there being a 2nd Russell T Davis series. 237 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.059 I went, no, God, no. 238 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:41.099 I was so pleasantly surprised, not by the Starbeast, but by Wild Blue Yonder and the Giggle. 239 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:49.380 I thought, okay, there are things about them that I don't like, but they were everything that the previous era wasn't, which was engaging, entertaining. 240 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:50.160 I was with it. 241 00:22:50.220 --> 00:23:07.259 And unfortunately, every shooty episode so far has not been that I've returned, and especially with the Church on Ruby Road and space babies, especially with those two, I was back to the Chibnell era thing, of going, oh, what time is it? 242 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:08.339 How long has this got to go? 243 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.799 Sorry, do I just don't even care. 244 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:14.099 And that's that I found bizarre. 245 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:27.720 One of the things I did like about this episode was the flashback to the church on Ruby Road and what was coming through there and I liked the change in the memory and that sort of thing because I went, okay, there's something going on here and I want to know more. 246 00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:39.779 I think we'll talk about that at the end of the episode, actually, because there's quite a bit of that sort of up in the air at the moment and much more than we would expect, I think, from a Russell T. Davis arc. 247 00:23:39.839 --> 00:24:06.539 Let's move on to the 2nd episode that we saw, the Devil's Chord, which seems to start in almost exactly the same way as its spiritual predecessor, the giggle, where a sort of strange godlike entity emerges somewhere in London in the 1920s and sort of attaches itself to some weird historical event. 248 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:14.759 How do we feel that the introduction of Jinx Monsoon as the maestro went? 249 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:16.680 In love chicks? 250 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:22.259 Yeah, I'm probably more familiar with Drag Race than most of you here. 251 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.900 I know Todd's been watching it recently. 252 00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:28.500 Oh, compassion in it, didn't he? 253 00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:31.559 Thank you, Peter. 254 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:36.180 I've watched I've watched a lot of the jinx and think that they are fantastic. 255 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:42.599 They are so witty and I've just enjoyed their performances so, so much. 256 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:43.680 What about here? 257 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:46.920 Disappointed. 258 00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:51.599 Oh, wow, that was that that's framed. 259 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.099 Oh, my God. 260 00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.640 Can I say, I wasn't disappointed. 261 00:24:56.700 --> 00:25:01.680 I thought they pitched this character really, really well. 262 00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:10.200 It really needed to be just over the job and ridiculous and like literally not a single piece of scenery. 263 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:11.460 Well, it's left on shoot. 264 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:12.240 It was fantastic. 265 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.259 And then... 266 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:15.900 And then after... 267 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.440 Um, little Mr... 268 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:20.759 HR bigger. 269 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:38.039 Um, was was gotten rid of and um, Maestro had eaten um, the music from uh, from the gentleman's soul, the playing into the Doctor Who theme, into the opening titles. 270 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.720 It was just, I was like, they're going to do it. 271 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:40.380 They going to do it. 272 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:40.799 Yeah. 273 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:42.000 This is fantastic. 274 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.039 I really love this episode. 275 00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.140 The ending, which we'll get to. 276 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:53.039 Maybe that was a bit a bridge too far for me, but possibly because I just felt it was a bit messy, not the musical element. 277 00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:57.240 I love a musical, but overall, yes, I was much more whelmed. 278 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.960 By this episode that I was by the last. 279 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:05.460 I thought the maestro was a very entertaining character. 280 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:10.980 And I think they were given a lot of importance in the story and we got to know a lot about them. 281 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:17.099 I think the performance by Jinx Monsoon was pretty good. 282 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.339 It was, if you'll forgive me, saying so, a little bit one note. 283 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:30.299 I think I think, but I think that you could draw a line between that performance and someone like Linda Baron in Enlightenment. 284 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.940 There wasn't a huge amount of daylight between it. 285 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:41.039 I just think that maybe Jinx was not an accomplished enough performer to bring a lot of light and shade to the role. 286 00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:44.279 I'm not sure that we need it a lot, but maybe just a little more to win good. 287 00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.579 I really did enjoy the scenes, though, for what they were. 288 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:53.940 I think that, you know, I love a good chewing the scenery performance. 289 00:26:54.000 --> 00:27:01.980 I think though, in order for that to be effective, it needs to start somewhere below 250%. 290 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:18.539 And I probably would have enjoyed the performance a lot more had they started, had that opening sequence been much more measured and quiet and almost whispering, and maybe, maybe the, the, the lid of the grand piano opens and out comes this person. 291 00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:28.500 And, you know, that, I think, would have been a way of me then dealing with the fact that the sooner he is chewed to oblivion as, as Nat James was saying. 292 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:34.980 The point is, I think it was a regrettable performance and they may be capable. 293 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:36.119 Maybe it's the way they're directed. 294 00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:39.420 I don't know, but it was, it was... 295 00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.059 I think that that's almost certainly what they were asked to do. 296 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.240 I think, and that's almost certainly why they were cast as well. 297 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:48.299 I think that that's absolutely what they were going for. 298 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:53.339 I'm going to put my cards on the table and I think that this is one of the best stories of the modern era. 299 00:27:53.400 --> 00:28:00.720 And, um, I think it's really astoundingly moving and interesting and well done. 300 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:12.180 And the fact that it does things like the musical number at the end, the fact that it fools about with a diogesis of who's in control of the show as a TV program. 301 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:25.799 And that bit in the middle where we just sit there for like 3 or 4 minutes and watch Millie play the piano, play Ruby's theme on the piano, and then we just see the people in the window react to it. 302 00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:34.859 I think absolutely sells the promising and importance of music in a way that lesser shows would have done by telling us about it. 303 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.460 And in fact, this show did that a little bit as well. 304 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.359 And also, you get to see Tune Hudson be eaten. 305 00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:43.859 Yes, absolutely. 306 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.359 I do want to see that. 307 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:48.359 That's why Jinx. 308 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:49.319 The garden's closed. 309 00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:51.119 Yes, exactly. 310 00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:57.240 I will put my cards on the table and say, I did enjoy this episode a lot more than the previous one. 311 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:07.799 In fact, I think this is probably a template going forward for what Russell is trying to do with the latest series, and I'm not, not on board with that. 312 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:12.119 I thought that there were a few problems with this episode, including again. 313 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:18.839 I didn't think it was particularly well structured, or had an enormous amount to say, really. 314 00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.000 I understood what it was saying, but it was all fairly basic. 315 00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:35.339 What I will say is that there were scenes in it which reminded me of very good Doctor Who in the past, including that wonderful scene where the doctor uses the Sonic to make everything silent and it just goes on for 90 seconds from that. 316 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.700 That was a fantastic scene and it gave me hope for the rest of the series. 317 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.299 I think it is oddly structured, and I think that's intentional. 318 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:45.960 I think, you know, it doesn't have lots of reversals or reveals or anything like that. 319 00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:55.259 It is just, you know, we encounter maestro and we fight them until we stop, you know, it is, it is very linear. 320 00:29:56.099 --> 00:30:02.940 But I think that just the weirdness of it is so well done. 321 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.420 And we've been primed for that, I think, by the giggle. 322 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.019 You know, this has a lot in common with a giggle. 323 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:21.059 There's a reason that the toy maker is Maestro's father, and we actually discover that Maestro is the father of someone else as well. 324 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:28.079 We're going to discover it, who turns up at the end in a twist somehow. 325 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.880 Oh, how twist. 326 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.039 What a twist, Nathan. 327 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.420 That's the only twist. 328 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:48.000 No, but look, look, I just think that I will definitely pay that there is an interesting concept there, but it just upsets me so much how badly it was then executed. 329 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:51.539 Jinx Monsoon is known Neil Patrick Harris. 330 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.619 Right? 331 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:53.160 Absolutely. 332 00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:16.019 Now, the toy makers over the topness in the giggle is sold by an absolutely top tier performer who is capable of walking the life, he is capable of making something over the top and seniory chewing, whilst at the same time you're taken into it as opposed to, I feel like with Jinx, I always feel like I was just watching a child's pansomime in a bad way. 333 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:19.500 And so you're right that there are some great, interesting things there. 334 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:21.720 And, you know, I great, that musical number at the end. 335 00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:23.579 I think I think it completely suits it. 336 00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:24.240 Yes, let's do that. 337 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:28.859 It was a shame that they, for a budget, the monumental size that it is. 338 00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:32.220 It would have been so much better had they have actually done a Beatles song or something. 339 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.200 That would have actually made it even even valuer. 340 00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:35.819 But anyway, maybe... 341 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:39.839 That was actually the point, was that we can't afford the Beatles. like even with a monumental budget. 342 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.220 We can't get the Beatles songs. 343 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:45.480 There are so many interesting things that this could have done with this concept. 344 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:46.859 And, you know, I love music. 345 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:49.380 I love this idea, right? 346 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:58.140 It was just done so exquisitely badly and shallowly that that it's like, is this what Doctor Who's going to be? 347 00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.160 and that's what you're saying, Peter. 348 00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:06.660 I worry, you're saying, Peter, you said that you're hoping that this is the template that they're going to do for the next rest of the season and possibly the rest of this era. 349 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.599 Oh, no, let me just let me just let me just say that someone. 350 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:13.500 I'm not hopeful, but I'm more hopeful of this being a template than space babies being one. 351 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:14.220 Okay. 352 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:39.900 I am equally unhopeful because Space Babies was breathtakingly embarrassing, whereas this was breathtakingly disappointing, and I think that it was disappointing because not just performance choices, you know, that's a thing, and sometimes that goes wrong, but also just because of the of the sheer basicness of it, the shallowness of it, the kind of like, you know, it's, you know, and this goes back to what I was saying earlier, is that who is this actually pitched at? 353 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:48.839 I know it's not supposed to be pitched at us and that's fine, but I just can't understand the modern teenager, the modern child being impressed by this. 354 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.940 And that, I think, is what I'm what I'm getting at. 355 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:51.960 It's just not clever. 356 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:53.099 You know what I mean? 357 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:59.220 Yeah, I think you may be overestimating the extent to which Doctor Who has historically been clever. 358 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.579 And I do think that there are clever things here. 359 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:10.859 I actually think as well that this episode has more to recommend it than either space babies or the Church on Ruby Road did. 360 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.259 I mean, I broadly do agree with you, Simon. 361 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:17.579 I found this a disappointing episode as well, but there was green shoots there. 362 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:26.279 There was a lot which I found to enjoy, I think Jinx Monsoon's performance was very entertaining, even if it wasn't very deep to my eye. 363 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:31.500 There were certain scenes, which I thought reminded me of very good doctor from the past. 364 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:32.579 I mentioned one earlier. 365 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:40.200 I also think that the scene at the end, the dance number, was a perfect ending and was actually quite well put together. 366 00:33:40.259 --> 00:34:01.859 And actually, that made me think about context because if this had been an episode 2 in a series which had started with a very traditional episode one, if it had started with partners in crime or the 11th hour or Smith and Jones, I would actually be thinking of the devil's chord as a delightful whimsical episode and we would get back on track. 367 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.220 Instead, this feels like the new norm and that's unsettling to me. 368 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:14.460 I think you're overestimating how much partners in crime in the 11th hour were traditional when they when they were 1st broadcast. 369 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:26.639 No, Nathan, I think something like the 11th hour was really kind of, for me, when that went out, and, you know, it maybe how many years ago, 14 years ago, but when you're an adult in their 50s, 14 years is nothing. 370 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:34.320 And I will say that I was utterly captivated by that, and even partners in crime, which I didn't think was particularly good, but at least I bought it and it all just sort of was happening. 371 00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:42.119 Yes, I can draw the line directly between partners and crime and city and city of death or the horns of Nimon or the time warrior. 372 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:43.500 Any of those stories. 373 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:44.940 I draw a line. 374 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.619 Partners and client. 375 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:48.300 And actually, all of those stories. 376 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.059 I really enjoy, including partners in crime. 377 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:58.440 I'm just not sure whether I can draw a line from the devil's court and more specifically space babies to any Doctor Who that I've enjoyed in the past. 378 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:05.940 I enjoyed this much more than the previous episode and there was a lot of stuff in there that I really did like. 379 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.239 And Jinx's performance. 380 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:11.940 I wanted more light and shade. 381 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.019 But I'm looking forward to going back and rewatching this one. 382 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.880 And I'm going to do that. 383 00:35:17.940 --> 00:35:22.619 And I think in the context of the season it's going to be very interesting to see what it's like. 384 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:28.619 I wanted more links with McCartney and Lenin and the payoff there. 385 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.320 I just thought it was very pedestrian to get to that. 386 00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:39.000 Even the doctor coming up with the notes and the chords, like I just wanted a bit more story around that and them. 387 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:43.920 And I guess I didn't really buy the actor playing Paul McCartney very much. 388 00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:47.400 Like I liked Lennon, but I didn't like the other guy. 389 00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:50.460 So those elements I struggled with. 390 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.039 There were times when I thought Jinx was absolutely wonderful. 391 00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:59.280 I guess I had a really high expectation of what they were going to deliver and they were obviously directed in a certain way. 392 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:17.340 I also, I guess, another positive that I really liked was a lot of the backstory stuff, you know, where the doctor lived in Totter's Lane and with his granddaughter and then other things that the maestro mentioned to do with the toy maker and legions and all that. 393 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.159 Again, I liked all of that through line in there. 394 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:25.739 As I said, I thought this episode was a step up from the previous one. 395 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:34.199 Maybe if I'd had a week between them, I might have had a different attitude because I was coming off that 1st episode going, 0 my goodness. 396 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:38.699 Like, I found it a train wreck is this one going to be as bad, you know? 397 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.300 And so I had that expectation in my mind. 398 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.219 Anyway, that's where I'm at with things. 399 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:48.179 I think that's a really good point about the structure towards the end, Todd. 400 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.260 I think I agree with you. 401 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.079 If it flowed a bit better. 402 00:36:52.139 --> 00:37:06.000 But I think also that must be a deliberate choice to cut it that way, to be off-putting, to to break the 4th wall, to say this is this is not normal, even for whatever the new normal of Doctor Who is. 403 00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:11.519 This is, this is us kind of going, the rules of reality, liking the giggle. 404 00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:19.920 The rules of reality are being bent and, you know, we can have a musical number at the end because it's digetic. 405 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.980 That joke was fantastic. 406 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.320 Oh, I thought that music was non-digetic. 407 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:30.000 I mean, yes, that joke was fantastic, but that actually made me think along those same lines. 408 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:38.039 Is there something bigger going on here, is doctor making a comment about something being non-digetic, the fact that the rules are breaking down and there's something going on. 409 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:51.059 And of course, there's a lot of internet speculation about the fact that the actress, Susan Twist, is in each episode and they talked about Susan a lot in this episode, which makes us think, of course, is there going to be a Susan Twist. 410 00:37:51.119 --> 00:38:01.260 I'm going to put my cards on the table and say that Susan is going to come back as the Rani and Jinx Monsoon is going to turn out to be the father of Melanie Bush. 411 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:04.260 Well, let's actually, let's actually talk a little bit about that. 412 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:15.539 So I think Susan Twist 1st appears in Wildloo Yonder, and she's the person that the camera follows with the news that something needs to be told to Sir Isaac Newton. 413 00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:20.159 And she has been in, I think she's in church on Ruby Road. 414 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:29.400 She was one of the people who was abandoning baby farm beta and delivering her message, saying how sort of terrible it was. 415 00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:36.840 She was the woman who sold the doctor the cups of tea for an incredible amount of money. 416 00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.539 And so she has been appearing over and over again. 417 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.739 She's from Brookside. 418 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.460 Is that right, Peter? 419 00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.099 Oh, it's never Brookside viewer. 420 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:48.840 I was just Googling it to find out who she was that says Coronation Street. 421 00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:50.460 Coronation Street. 422 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.659 Okay, so she's known. 423 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.179 She's being recognised, I think, by the people at home. 424 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:56.039 So we've got her. 425 00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:06.659 We have Mrs. Flood from the end of church the church on Ruby Road, who knows what a TARDIS is, although she didn't seem to do that at the beginning of the episode. 426 00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:18.420 The readout on Baby Farm Beta had 9.9 for Mavity. of planet. 427 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:24.539 And given that the previous RTD era, It's like when we talk about arcs. 428 00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:27.000 RTD would just have a word. 429 00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:39.599 You know, the only arc that was really, particularly interesting was the Saxon arc where Saxon at the end of episode 12 travels back in time to the end of season two, which is why he's been appearing all the way through. 430 00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:41.159 And that's kind of fun and interesting. 431 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.199 It's not sort of super a big deal. 432 00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:46.380 Nathan, of course, don't forget about the Ark as well. 433 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:47.940 That's awesome. 434 00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:51.300 Is that Doctor Who's 1st art? 435 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:52.800 It might be. 436 00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:56.340 So there's a lot more on the table, I think. 437 00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.380 Oh my god, there's so much more. 438 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.179 There has been. 439 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.039 And it'll be interesting to see what happens. 440 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:08.639 Because Moffat had more sophisticated arcs, but they tended to be just about the relationships between the regulars and semi-regulars. 441 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:13.500 And sometimes like conspicuously in season 9, he'll go, ah, yeah, whatever. 442 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.139 It was a thing, you know, and it won't go anywhere. 443 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:17.579 And I don't mind that. 444 00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:23.099 I didn't think that that was a, you know, the great war crime that so many other people seemed to think it was. 445 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:27.300 Um, so I'm interested because this seems to be quite a different approach. 446 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:28.739 Well, it is. 447 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:33.300 I think there's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff to do with Ruby, the hidden song in Ruby. 448 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:44.760 The one who waits is almost here, the oldest one, like there's a whole heap of other stuff going on, not only with ruby, but with those other characters and with everybody connected with the toy makers. 449 00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:50.880 So I'm actually quite confident that Russell's going to tie all this together, whether we like it or not. 450 00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:57.239 That's another question, but he's always managed to pull all the threads together at some point. 451 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:01.679 So I'm actually looking quite forward to the last few episodes of the season to see where it all goes. 452 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:06.059 I've got a few things to plug before we go. 453 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:13.739 We're right near the end of our 1st season of 500 year diary, which has dealt with the idea of new beginnings. 454 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:19.440 The episode that we released most recently was on the Torchwood Pilot. 455 00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:29.639 Everything changes. and we are going to be back next week for one more episode on the Sarah Jane Adventures New Year's Day special called Invasion of the Bane. 456 00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:37.260 Um, Startling Barbara Bain continues, uh, and so keep an eye out for that. 457 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.900 It is pretty much the same pain. 458 00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:47.579 And of course, maximum power and untitled Star Trek Project. 459 00:41:47.639 --> 00:42:01.320 If you want to know about the Flight Through Entirety podcast Empire, go to any one of our websites and go slash podcasts and there will be a massive and embarrassingly long list of all of the podcasts that we're involved in. 460 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:15.480 In which case, all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember that if the doctor can hear the incidental music that might explain the mood that Pertwe is in throughout the claws of Axos. 461 00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:18.360 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 462 00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:19.559 See you soon. 463 00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:20.880 Ta-ta. 464 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:21.659 Good night. 465 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:22.679 Bye bye. 466 00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:30.780 And what about Doctor Who and the Silurians, Nathan. in quite a good mood for that.