WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-02 at 15:32:30 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.180 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and 2 00:00:03.180 --> 00:00:07.200 bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flashcast which always 3 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:13.199 says space restaurant or space champagne or space, you know, hat. 4 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:15.419 I'm Nathan. 5 00:00:15.480 --> 00:00:16.320 I'm Todd. 6 00:00:16.379 --> 00:00:17.339 I am James. 7 00:00:17.399 --> 00:00:18.480 I'm Peter. 8 00:00:18.539 --> 00:00:19.980 And I'm Simon. 9 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:24.359 Well, we are here to talk about the 2 Doctor Who episodes that 10 00:00:24.359 --> 00:00:29.460 screen for the 1st time, just a day or so ago. 11 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:33.960 The 1st time ever, I think that 2 Doctor Who episodes have debuted 12 00:00:33.960 --> 00:00:37.200 on the same day, certainly the 1st time that 2 stories have 13 00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:38.520 debuted on the same day. 14 00:00:38.579 --> 00:00:44.520 So an exciting moment only previously achieved by Torchwood series 15 00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:47.340 one, which actually did the same thing. 16 00:00:47.759 --> 00:00:53.520 So let's start with episode one or possibly episode two, who can 17 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:57.960 possibly say Space Babies, which is written by Russell T. Davis 18 00:00:57.960 --> 00:01:02.159 and directed by Julianne Robinson, who we be seeing again next 19 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:02.520 week. 20 00:01:02.579 --> 00:01:08.340 Let's start by talking about something perhaps, perhaps the least 21 00:01:08.340 --> 00:01:12.359 controversial aspect of the episode, which is how do we think this 22 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:19.319 went reintroducing the regulars and the premise of the show to a 23 00:01:19.319 --> 00:01:21.659 new audience and to an old audience? 24 00:01:21.719 --> 00:01:24.060 Let's start, perhaps, with pizza. 25 00:01:24.299 --> 00:01:28.439 I mean, I think it did a fairly good job of introducing the show 26 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:29.400 to a new audience. 27 00:01:29.459 --> 00:01:32.219 My question is, what audience is that? 28 00:01:32.219 --> 00:01:33.959 Because I don't think it's aimed at me. 29 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:37.920 And I don't think it's aimed at fans who might have been fans of 30 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:41.879 the original series because this feels like stretch too far for 31 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:42.120 me. 32 00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:45.359 Whereas I can draw a direct line between something like partners 33 00:01:45.359 --> 00:01:47.819 in crime and something like City of Death. 34 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:51.659 I can't draw a line between this and any previous stock 2 that I 35 00:01:51.659 --> 00:01:52.140 was a fan of. 36 00:01:52.200 --> 00:01:53.579 Just to expand on that. 37 00:01:53.640 --> 00:01:57.359 I mean, I find it odd the way it starts because if the purpose and 38 00:01:57.359 --> 00:02:00.900 we're told the purpose of this is to introduce Doctor Who to a new 39 00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:04.560 audience through the Disney streaming platform worldwide. 40 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:09.060 And so the assumption is when I was watching it, even more so than 41 00:02:09.060 --> 00:02:12.000 the Churchill and Ruby Road, and certainly more so than the 42 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:17.460 Starbase, was that we were introducing the show in Globo to an 43 00:02:17.460 --> 00:02:19.500 entirely potentially an entirely new audience. 44 00:02:19.560 --> 00:02:26.039 And I just cannot get past how bad a job they did of that with all 45 00:02:26.039 --> 00:02:29.460 this exposition that made the tele movie, the 1996 telemovie look 46 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:30.120 restrained. 47 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:35.520 How does that actually introduce the regulars to a new audience? 48 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:39.419 This kind of bizarre info dump that the doctor manages to kind of 49 00:02:39.419 --> 00:02:45.360 almost breathlessly dish out about basically the last 61 years of 50 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:45.719 the show. 51 00:02:45.780 --> 00:02:47.699 It's bizarre. 52 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:49.919 And dare I suggest inept? 53 00:02:49.979 --> 00:02:53.400 Can I just say, though, that it's almost exactly beat for beat 54 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:55.259 what we do in the end of the world. 55 00:02:55.500 --> 00:03:00.479 And because we don't have a 13 episode series. 56 00:03:01.259 --> 00:03:05.340 We want to get this out of the way, I think. 57 00:03:05.400 --> 00:03:08.759 And so it is, why do we need to get out of the way? 58 00:03:08.819 --> 00:03:10.800 Why talk about it at all? 59 00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:12.719 Why bring, it's not the end of the world. 60 00:03:12.780 --> 00:03:15.000 The end of the world had a few little bits and they were spread 61 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:15.960 throughout the episode. 62 00:03:16.020 --> 00:03:18.599 This was like, the script editor suddenly realised that they 63 00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.419 needed to fill in the audience, and they quickly wrote a scene 64 00:03:21.419 --> 00:03:24.719 that the regulars performed in the bit of studio because they had 65 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:26.219 5 minutes to go before 10 o'clock. 66 00:03:26.280 --> 00:03:27.900 That's what it wreaks of for me. 67 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:31.919 And for a show which has got so much money behind it and so much 68 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.060 time spent on it. 69 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:34.500 I find it. 70 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:36.060 I just find it perplexing. 71 00:03:36.180 --> 00:03:40.319 I think that actually there was an edict from Disney. 72 00:03:40.379 --> 00:03:44.699 I'm told that Disney wanted Russell to include more of introducing 73 00:03:44.699 --> 00:03:47.759 the show to a general audience, but I do agree with Simon. 74 00:03:47.819 --> 00:03:50.759 I think it could have been done in a slightly better way than info 75 00:03:50.759 --> 00:03:51.479 dump in one scene. 76 00:03:51.539 --> 00:03:54.960 And also, I do wonder if there was more interesting way to do it 77 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:57.840 because you could get away with it in the end of the world because 78 00:03:57.840 --> 00:03:59.819 there was a generational gap there. 79 00:03:59.879 --> 00:04:02.939 Doctor Who hadn't been on television for 15 years. 80 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:07.020 Whereas I think Doctor Who globally is a known phenomenon now, and 81 00:04:07.020 --> 00:04:09.719 the basics of it are known pretty well. 82 00:04:09.780 --> 00:04:13.620 So I understand getting it out of the way quickly, but it was done 83 00:04:13.620 --> 00:04:14.639 quite inelegantly, I think. 84 00:04:14.699 --> 00:04:16.019 Oh, okay. 85 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:17.339 Todd. 86 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:23.459 I kind of sit somewhere towards what both Peter and Simon are 87 00:04:23.459 --> 00:04:25.680 saying, it was a bit of a list. 88 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:28.560 The Rani adopted genocide, Gallifrey. 89 00:04:28.620 --> 00:04:29.879 Last of the Time Lords. 90 00:04:29.939 --> 00:04:33.180 We then had other things like, I liked the fact that she looked 91 00:04:33.180 --> 00:04:36.899 out onto a whole new world, but we did the whole, here's my phone 92 00:04:36.899 --> 00:04:37.319 again. 93 00:04:37.379 --> 00:04:43.199 We did the whole stepping on a butterfly like they done with Peter 94 00:04:43.199 --> 00:04:47.579 Capaldi and Pearl Mackey, but redone. 95 00:04:47.639 --> 00:04:51.899 We did at the end, we did the whole scan of Millie's character 96 00:04:51.899 --> 00:04:52.800 like they done with Amy. 97 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.920 So I saw all of those things in there and it didn't necessarily 98 00:04:55.920 --> 00:04:57.360 worry me too much. 99 00:04:57.420 --> 00:05:01.199 I kind of was there going, okay, this seems to be quite forced 100 00:05:01.199 --> 00:05:01.920 onto us. 101 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:02.939 Is this the right direction? 102 00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:05.279 Are we just going to try and get rid of it because we've got 8 103 00:05:05.279 --> 00:05:05.879 episodes? 104 00:05:05.939 --> 00:05:08.160 Okay, that's the way they were going. 105 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:11.160 So I didn't necessarily really dislike it. 106 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:12.779 I didn't really, really love it. 107 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:14.579 It was just there and it happened. 108 00:05:15.180 --> 00:05:18.120 Yeah, look, I mean, I see what you're saying. 109 00:05:18.180 --> 00:05:22.019 Um, I probably am a little more forgiving of that because I think 110 00:05:22.019 --> 00:05:27.720 there's actually often that is a way that um, The generations 111 00:05:27.720 --> 00:05:29.040 younger than us talk. 112 00:05:29.100 --> 00:05:32.279 There is a lot of information. 113 00:05:32.339 --> 00:05:34.620 There's a lot of quick talk and there's a lot of info dumping. 114 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:40.079 Um, like what we might see as inelegant scriptwriting actually 115 00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:41.819 might be a deliberate choice. 116 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:47.459 I also thought, I mean, getting away from how we felt about the 117 00:05:47.459 --> 00:05:48.300 list of things. 118 00:05:48.360 --> 00:05:55.620 What I found quite moving was how differently the idea that the 119 00:05:55.620 --> 00:06:00.899 doctor's people have been wiped out and there's been a genocide 120 00:06:00.899 --> 00:06:07.500 against them. comes across when it's coming from a Rwandan man 121 00:06:07.560 --> 00:06:14.699 like someone who has experienced that in their own life as opposed 122 00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:18.899 to some old white guy. going on and on about, oh, all my people 123 00:06:18.899 --> 00:06:19.379 are dead. 124 00:06:19.439 --> 00:06:21.060 It hits differently. 125 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:27.180 Um, that's not necessarily a, I mean, I, I, I think that has to be 126 00:06:27.180 --> 00:06:29.399 a deliberate choice on the part of Russell. 127 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:34.019 I mean, there's no way that this is not a deliberate choice and 128 00:06:34.019 --> 00:06:37.439 there's no way that this is has got out of Russell's control. 129 00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:40.920 And I don't think that there's actually all that much information 130 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:45.000 delivered in those 10 minutes or so. 131 00:06:45.060 --> 00:06:50.819 And what we get as new information as some longtime viewers is 132 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:53.579 some idea of how the show is now going to treat those issues. 133 00:06:53.579 --> 00:06:57.839 And what it is going to do with those issues now is mention them 134 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:02.759 without being all overwrought and in your face about them. 135 00:07:02.819 --> 00:07:04.560 And I think that's a relief. 136 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:07.860 It's kind of something that I sort of expected when Chibnall took 137 00:07:07.860 --> 00:07:11.160 over and it looked like we were going to leave that stuff behind. 138 00:07:11.220 --> 00:07:14.160 But it now does look like we're properly leaving that stuff 139 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:14.879 behind. 140 00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:18.060 And so I thought that those scenes were charming. 141 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:20.579 I think it gave us a chance to see the 2 leads talking about 142 00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:21.060 something. 143 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:24.000 I don't know what else they were going to talk about at that 144 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:24.300 point. 145 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:30.480 We got to see a pretty impressive visual with the dinosaurs and 146 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.300 stuff like that, which was kind of fun and a bit of a weird gag 147 00:07:33.300 --> 00:07:34.199 and things like that. 148 00:07:34.259 --> 00:07:39.240 Like, I think all of that kind of works, and it is the choice that 149 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:41.220 he made the 1st time round. 150 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.459 And so I think, you know, every 20 years you're allowed one of 151 00:07:44.459 --> 00:07:44.819 these. 152 00:07:45.300 --> 00:07:48.720 I understand the imperative, and I know that you've got to 153 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:52.980 introduce concepts like, um, we'll, uh, Millie be able to talk to 154 00:07:52.980 --> 00:07:56.040 her, um, mother and all of that, but it was beat for beat the same 155 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:56.759 as the end of the world. 156 00:07:56.819 --> 00:07:59.220 And I remember in the end of the world feeling that was a really 157 00:07:59.220 --> 00:08:02.639 interesting way to approach it where the doctor would zap her 158 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.279 phone and she was able to speak in real time to Jackie. 159 00:08:05.339 --> 00:08:08.339 Jerose was able to speak real time to Jackie back home. 160 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.899 And it was quite an affecting scene. 161 00:08:09.959 --> 00:08:12.600 I just wondered if we could have done it a slightly different way 162 00:08:12.600 --> 00:08:14.759 because this was exactly the same scene. 163 00:08:14.879 --> 00:08:19.319 He didn't manage to do it a different way in series 3, to be fair 164 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:23.040 he does something fairly similar as well with Martha's phone. 165 00:08:23.100 --> 00:08:26.459 So maybe there aren't that many ways that that can be done. 166 00:08:26.519 --> 00:08:29.759 I do agree with you about the last of the time on stuff. 167 00:08:29.819 --> 00:08:31.740 Like it was mentioned, but he didn't dwell on it. 168 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:34.139 So I was quite pleased about that. 169 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:38.519 It was more them connecting over things and her taking on board 170 00:08:38.519 --> 00:08:42.360 where he's coming from, and I did get that from the episode, and I 171 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:45.179 did like her reactions to some of the things that he had to say 172 00:08:45.179 --> 00:08:48.899 without her overplaying it or being deeply distressed. 173 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:50.639 Yeah, yeah. 174 00:08:50.700 --> 00:08:54.299 I think that's being handled very well in both episodes as it as 175 00:08:54.299 --> 00:08:54.659 it happens. 176 00:08:54.899 --> 00:08:57.480 Um, I have to agree on that. 177 00:08:57.480 --> 00:09:02.580 It's very, um, none of none of that sort of... interaction between 178 00:09:02.580 --> 00:09:05.340 those 2 cast members feels forced. 179 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:12.059 It feels like they get they do get on behind the scenes and and 180 00:09:12.059 --> 00:09:15.960 there were moments in this and the next episode of sort of a 181 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:18.480 genuine kind of her responding to his pain. 182 00:09:18.779 --> 00:09:22.919 I just have to say the whole thing about drama is you show, don't 183 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:23.159 tell. 184 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:25.559 I'm not saying this because I didn't like it. 185 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:28.980 I'm saying this because I think it is, I'm genuinely think it was 186 00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:29.519 bad. 187 00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:31.139 It was badly written. 188 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:32.580 There was nothing elegant. 189 00:09:32.639 --> 00:09:34.980 There was nothing sophisticated about the way he did this. 190 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.639 And I don't mind, look, I don't mind the fact that you repeat 191 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:40.919 things from end of the world and repeat things from other things. 192 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:42.419 There's going to be stuff like that. 193 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:47.039 I just think it is, it is a very peculiar choice from some, from 194 00:09:47.039 --> 00:09:49.860 people who I believe should know a lot better and that's kind of 195 00:09:49.860 --> 00:09:50.639 where I'm coming from. 196 00:09:50.700 --> 00:09:52.200 I'm perplexed. anyway. 197 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:52.980 All right. 198 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.759 So it's time to talk about something that I think everyone will be 199 00:09:56.759 --> 00:10:00.899 behind, which is a baby farm run by babies. 200 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:07.200 I'm a big fan of babies, I have to say, and I'm sure that everyone 201 00:10:07.200 --> 00:10:11.220 else here will agree with me that this was harmless fun. 202 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:13.500 It would have looked much better, I think, if they were all 203 00:10:13.500 --> 00:10:14.279 shimmer on babies. 204 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:21.360 It was like, can I, yeah, I think it's like someone. in 1974 205 00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.059 saying, yes, Barry, we can do dinosaurs realistically. 206 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.279 Oh, but you can't think. 207 00:10:26.340 --> 00:10:30.000 You can't think that they are intending to do that realistically. 208 00:10:30.059 --> 00:10:33.299 I think that absolutely what they were going for was the 209 00:10:33.299 --> 00:10:38.460 incredibly off putting weirdness of what we ended up getting. 210 00:10:38.519 --> 00:10:40.919 With their mouths and their speech. 211 00:10:40.919 --> 00:10:41.639 Yes, absolutely. 212 00:10:41.700 --> 00:10:42.360 I just... 213 00:10:42.419 --> 00:10:47.879 I was just going, this is bizarre. and I, and I'm not, I don't 214 00:10:47.879 --> 00:10:48.899 know if I'm buying it. 215 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:49.860 I don't know how I feel. 216 00:10:49.919 --> 00:10:50.940 I'm not connecting with it. 217 00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.279 I struggled through all of that. 218 00:10:53.340 --> 00:11:00.000 I think Eric, the incredibly concerned, weird looking baby is the 219 00:11:00.000 --> 00:11:02.580 absolute MVP in this. 220 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:05.940 I can't believe that he wouldn't have been named after another 221 00:11:05.940 --> 00:11:09.059 notorious baby on the Dog 2 production team, Eric Seaward. 222 00:11:09.240 --> 00:11:10.740 Probably. 223 00:11:13.139 --> 00:11:18.299 But, um, like, all of that stuff is absolutely preposterous, and 224 00:11:18.299 --> 00:11:21.840 it is a little bit like, I think, the, um, you know, maybe the 225 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:24.899 adipose or something like that, where we had sort of little baby 226 00:11:24.899 --> 00:11:26.519 fat people and stuff. 227 00:11:26.580 --> 00:11:31.799 Um, but obviously far, far further down the uncanny valley, I 228 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:32.100 think. 229 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.320 I did have to say that I just thought, Eric, with his little toy 230 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:41.340 sword heading down to attack, the giant bogey man at the bottom 231 00:11:41.340 --> 00:11:42.899 was pretty great. 232 00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:48.480 But yes, it does seem very much designed to kind of put people off 233 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:50.460 in some ways. 234 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.100 So there's at least one Shimmeron baby in this. 235 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:54.779 Downstairs. 236 00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:58.559 I can't believe that we've had more than one monster made out of 237 00:11:58.559 --> 00:11:59.039 boogers. 238 00:11:59.100 --> 00:12:00.960 A different type of booger. 239 00:12:01.019 --> 00:12:02.580 That's true. 240 00:12:02.580 --> 00:12:03.480 Just awful. 241 00:12:03.539 --> 00:12:09.419 Look, I didn't, look, I'm prepared to try anything when it comes 242 00:12:09.419 --> 00:12:11.639 to Doctor Who and, you know, you have to be able to argue that 243 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.460 anything's potentially possible and you can take the show wherever 244 00:12:14.460 --> 00:12:14.820 you want. 245 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:19.740 But I just thought that this was just a bridge too far, not 246 00:12:19.740 --> 00:12:24.419 necessarily even in the concept, just the puerile way the whole 247 00:12:24.419 --> 00:12:25.379 thing is executed. 248 00:12:25.440 --> 00:12:30.059 I just found it beyond childish beyond it, I suppose the 249 00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:31.259 immaturity level. 250 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:33.059 It's just too much. 251 00:12:33.179 --> 00:12:37.200 I kind of understand what it's going for because the vibe is not 252 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:38.820 that dissimilar from season 24. 253 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:42.179 And so I sat there watching it, trying to work out why I enjoy 254 00:12:42.179 --> 00:12:45.720 great suedes of season 24, but I wasn't necessarily enjoying 255 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:46.080 this. 256 00:12:46.139 --> 00:12:50.279 Um, it feels, and the next episode as well, have a feeling of 257 00:12:50.279 --> 00:12:53.759 Delta and the Bannerman about them, where it's sort of knowingly 258 00:12:53.759 --> 00:12:58.860 camp and fun, and yet Delta and the Bannerman also has realistic 259 00:12:58.860 --> 00:13:04.500 characters to engage with and um, a structure that tells a story. 260 00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.299 Whereas I felt from this that it didn't. 261 00:13:06.360 --> 00:13:10.200 It felt like the, it felt like the campness and the weirdness was 262 00:13:10.200 --> 00:13:11.220 the end in itself. 263 00:13:11.279 --> 00:13:13.200 And so maybe that's what I have problem with. 264 00:13:13.259 --> 00:13:14.340 Yeah, exactly. 265 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:15.480 I think Peter, you're absolutely right. 266 00:13:15.539 --> 00:13:18.240 It's the fact that rather than it just being the way it happened 267 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:18.960 to be made. 268 00:13:19.019 --> 00:13:22.259 It is like they're kind of striving for that at the get go, and 269 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:25.679 that means that you end up with this this unbelievably shallow 270 00:13:25.679 --> 00:13:29.279 thing that I'm not even sure who the hell this is being aimed at. 271 00:13:29.340 --> 00:13:31.080 I'm yeah. 272 00:13:31.139 --> 00:13:35.100 See, you know, one of the things that I was sort of acutely aware 273 00:13:35.100 --> 00:13:40.259 of, because I have heard people, you know, horrified by these 2 274 00:13:40.259 --> 00:13:44.879 episodes, is that acute sense of fan embarrassment that we all 275 00:13:44.879 --> 00:13:45.659 suffer from. 276 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:47.759 You know, we're watching this and we wonder who comes in. 277 00:13:47.820 --> 00:13:51.419 We wonder what happens when someone comes in and sees us doing 278 00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:51.720 that. 279 00:13:51.779 --> 00:13:54.240 And we've talked about that on flights or entirety. 280 00:13:54.299 --> 00:13:58.379 And of course, this, I think, is much less likely to elicit fan 281 00:13:58.379 --> 00:14:01.740 embarrassment than a bunch of robots in a room talking about 282 00:14:01.740 --> 00:14:07.559 things or, you know, the, um, that French and Saunders sketch, you 283 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:09.299 know, on the trial of a timeline set. 284 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:10.320 Yeah, the Sanurians. 285 00:14:10.379 --> 00:14:11.879 Turn come back, sea breaks. 286 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:14.460 Yeah, no, no. 287 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:15.480 That sort of stuff. 288 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:16.620 I have to violently disagree. 289 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:18.360 That sort of stuff, I think, is embarrassing. 290 00:14:18.419 --> 00:14:22.919 I don't think you get the sense from like TV reviewers and stuff 291 00:14:22.919 --> 00:14:26.580 who are writing explicitly for the not we, that this is a bridge 292 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:27.899 too far for them. 293 00:14:27.960 --> 00:14:31.080 This is the sort of thing that only Doctor Who could do. 294 00:14:31.139 --> 00:14:33.659 Maybe no one should try it. 295 00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:35.759 It might be the take home lesson from this. 296 00:14:35.820 --> 00:14:40.559 But for me, in fact, I think it's the more traditional of the 2 297 00:14:40.559 --> 00:14:41.279 episodes. 298 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:46.440 You know, you have a base, there's a computer, the people have 299 00:14:46.440 --> 00:14:48.179 been abandoned and they don't know why. 300 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:49.799 There's a monster downstairs. 301 00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:54.240 You know, we we explore, we find out the nature of the monster, we 302 00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.059 discover the monster's not so terrible after all, and we decide to 303 00:14:57.059 --> 00:14:57.480 save it. 304 00:14:57.539 --> 00:15:01.200 Like all of those beats seem to me to be very, very traditionally 305 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:02.460 Doctor Who. 306 00:15:02.519 --> 00:15:06.360 So a lot of the purpose of this episode is to establish what sort 307 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:10.980 of thing Doctor Who does, but marrying it to what is an extremely 308 00:15:10.980 --> 00:15:11.700 high concept. 309 00:15:12.779 --> 00:15:16.679 Yeah, I mean, when you express it like that, I agree that if you 310 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:19.080 express it in those terms, yes, those are traditional sort of 311 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.179 Doctor Who tropes, form of a better word. 312 00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.840 But I think the way the way it's done, and I think this comes back 313 00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:26.759 to what we talked about a lot, is that I think too many of the 314 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:29.460 makers of the current show, we're embarrassed by being a Doctor 315 00:15:29.460 --> 00:15:32.580 Who fan when they were 12 and 14 because it was the most uncool 316 00:15:32.580 --> 00:15:33.240 thing to be. 317 00:15:33.299 --> 00:15:37.740 And so rather than fix the failures of the original series and 318 00:15:37.740 --> 00:15:40.500 make it so that when the robots are talking to each other in the 319 00:15:40.500 --> 00:15:42.600 room and when the cellular ends are on trial in the front of time 320 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.419 whatever the hell it is, it looks better, it sounds better. 321 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:46.980 It's done in a better way. 322 00:15:47.100 --> 00:15:50.519 Whereas what they've decided to do instead is to try and say, and 323 00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.759 this is why the reviewer is writing for the not we, write, you 324 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:56.399 know, say, oh, you know, this is just Doctor Who being bonkers and 325 00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:57.960 mad because that's what it always was. 326 00:15:58.019 --> 00:16:01.679 No, it was not bonkers and Maz, deliberately. 327 00:16:01.740 --> 00:16:04.320 It became bonkers and mad from time to time because of various 328 00:16:04.320 --> 00:16:08.279 failures, um, often because of over the top people who happened to 329 00:16:08.279 --> 00:16:09.659 be in it or whatever else it was. 330 00:16:09.720 --> 00:16:12.539 And instead they decided because they're leaning into that. 331 00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:16.259 I actually think that they are risking alienating, particularly 332 00:16:16.259 --> 00:16:20.460 with this episode, but also with the next episode, of alienating 333 00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:23.399 any Doctor Who fan with any standing. 334 00:16:23.460 --> 00:16:25.679 Now, if they want to do that, fine, but I just don't understand 335 00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:31.620 how that then appeals to another generation, who are experiencing 336 00:16:31.620 --> 00:16:34.379 even as children, like, even if you express it as a children's 337 00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:37.620 drama or a family show, experiencing stuff, which is so much more 338 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:43.799 interesting and mature and thoughtful and has got a message and so 339 00:16:43.799 --> 00:16:46.860 on, but rather than this, just nonsense. 340 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:51.059 I'm not entirely sure it's the fan gene thing either, because I 341 00:16:51.059 --> 00:16:55.259 have, myself, quite a high tolerance for whimsy and weirdness and 342 00:16:55.259 --> 00:16:56.820 camp and Doctor Who. 343 00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:58.139 You know, I love Time and the Rani. 344 00:16:58.259 --> 00:17:00.899 I think time and the only is genuinely extremely enjoyable and in 345 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:01.799 places rather good. 346 00:17:01.860 --> 00:17:04.380 Um, and so I don't... 347 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.740 I know I'm out on a limb, I know. 348 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:10.980 But I wouldn't be embarrassed by someone else watching it and 349 00:17:10.980 --> 00:17:14.279 walking and by someone else walking in and watching this. 350 00:17:14.339 --> 00:17:18.059 I was a bit embarrassed watching this and I don't think it was the 351 00:17:18.059 --> 00:17:19.920 visual of the babies. 352 00:17:19.980 --> 00:17:23.819 I don't think it was the uncanny valleyness of that and the weird 353 00:17:23.819 --> 00:17:25.319 idea of having babies. 354 00:17:25.380 --> 00:17:29.579 It's just that it didn't really work. didn't seem to be in service 355 00:17:29.579 --> 00:17:30.299 of anything. 356 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:34.319 It just seemed to be there as a weird visual and yet as a gimmick 357 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:35.819 as a gimmick. right. 358 00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:39.720 And hearing babies talk constantly is sort of not what I tune in 359 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:40.799 to Doctor Who for at all. 360 00:17:41.460 --> 00:17:44.700 I think we'll get they when Flight Through Entirety comes around 361 00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:47.700 because I think there are all sorts of things to talk about when 362 00:17:47.700 --> 00:17:52.619 it comes to kind of the gay experience and babies and that Russell 363 00:17:52.619 --> 00:17:57.960 you know, that Russell is probably coming from a particular place 364 00:17:57.960 --> 00:17:58.859 here. 365 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:03.059 But certainly the off putting this of the baby strikes me as 366 00:18:03.059 --> 00:18:04.859 something that's absolutely intentional. 367 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:06.180 Yes. 368 00:18:06.240 --> 00:18:09.839 I guess for me, I didn't connect with it. 369 00:18:09.900 --> 00:18:11.279 I found it embarrassing. 370 00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:15.720 The way in which I originally found Paradise Towers or Time in the 371 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.299 Rani, all Joshua and the Badman embarrassing. 372 00:18:18.359 --> 00:18:21.420 I'd rather go and watch those episodes than have to sit through 373 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:22.319 this episode again. 374 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:23.519 That's how I feel. 375 00:18:24.059 --> 00:18:28.019 You see, I was actually quite excited about the prospect of 376 00:18:28.019 --> 00:18:32.519 watching these 2 episodes again today, uh, in a way that I wasn't 377 00:18:32.519 --> 00:18:37.500 that I haven't really been very much for the last few years. 378 00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:43.200 Like, it just seemed to me that this is absolutely just here not 379 00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:47.160 to tell a particularly sophisticated story in itself, but to just 380 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:52.920 reintroduce the show as a concept, and it absolutely does that, I 381 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:58.019 think, in a way that, you know, previous Russell episode ones have 382 00:18:58.019 --> 00:18:58.380 done. 383 00:18:58.619 --> 00:19:01.799 So I'm kind of here for it, I think. 384 00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:07.140 I actually was quite looking forward to watching them again today 385 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:09.839 and I actually enjoyed them a hell of a lot more the 2nd time 386 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:16.140 round because I was expecting what was coming and could appreciate 387 00:19:16.140 --> 00:19:23.099 it or how different it was from what has been done at various 388 00:19:23.099 --> 00:19:24.660 times over the last 20 years. 389 00:19:24.779 --> 00:19:30.000 Like, I think it, it's trying to be different and trying to 390 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.660 approach the concept of show differently and trying to push the 391 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:37.500 boundaries, but it can do visually and in terms of storytelling 392 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.799 with the 2nd episode, which we'll get to. 393 00:19:40.859 --> 00:19:43.740 I actually really enjoyed them. 394 00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.279 I, I, I'm not saying there weren't out there flaws and I agree 395 00:19:47.279 --> 00:19:50.880 with a lot of what you're all saying, but I didn't find that took 396 00:19:50.880 --> 00:19:51.779 me out of the drama. 397 00:19:52.140 --> 00:19:55.980 I just have to say that I just think Russell has done the 398 00:19:55.980 --> 00:20:00.059 reintroduction of the show a number of times and every single time 399 00:20:00.059 --> 00:20:02.039 he's got it right. 400 00:20:02.099 --> 00:20:06.359 And this time I just, this is the one I just don't connect with at 401 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:06.539 all. 402 00:20:07.319 --> 00:20:10.740 I will say that I think that if this was meant to be a 403 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:14.460 reintroduction to the show to a wider audience, I don't get the 404 00:20:14.460 --> 00:20:17.460 impression, and I'm crossing my fingers, that this is the model 405 00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:18.839 for the show going forward. 406 00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:21.660 So I don't think this episode is what the show is going to be 407 00:20:21.660 --> 00:20:22.319 every week. 408 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:26.700 So it seems to me a strange idea to bring in a whole new 409 00:20:26.700 --> 00:20:30.960 viewership and then deliver them space babies when space babies is 410 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:33.539 quite far removed from what Doctor Who does most of the time. 411 00:20:33.660 --> 00:20:38.339 Well, I think that probably what we're expecting is 8 episodes, all 412 00:20:38.339 --> 00:20:42.599 of which are substantially different from one another in tone and 413 00:20:42.599 --> 00:20:44.819 subject matter and appearance. 414 00:20:44.940 --> 00:20:47.279 Is that what a new audience is expecting though? 415 00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:50.640 I don't know, but that is what Doctor Who tends to deliver when it 416 00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:54.720 has enough money to do that, is something basically different 417 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.740 every week. 418 00:20:55.799 --> 00:21:00.000 And although the previous Russell T. Davis era, we said we found 419 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.660 he kind of made the same season 4 times. 420 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:07.920 Within each variation of that season, we went from place to place 421 00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:11.460 to place and did quite different things from week to week. 422 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:15.059 And I think that Modern Doctor Who, that Doctor Who that can 423 00:21:15.059 --> 00:21:20.640 afford to build new sets every week, um, does that, you know, and 424 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.220 that's very much part of what it's here for. 425 00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:25.140 But this had the structure. 426 00:21:25.259 --> 00:21:28.259 I think that I enumerated before, which I think is the structure 427 00:21:28.259 --> 00:21:29.339 of a Doctor Who episode. 428 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.240 So it's establishing that, but in a sort of high concept way. 429 00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:40.140 Having said that, parts of this set are cannibalised from, well 430 00:21:40.140 --> 00:21:41.339 blue yonder. 431 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:44.759 Here, I say. 432 00:21:46.619 --> 00:21:48.660 And you know, that's the thing. 433 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:51.599 It not just about Russell's way of making Doctor Who because I 434 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:52.559 found things to enjoy. 435 00:21:52.619 --> 00:21:56.579 And in many cases, very much enjoy in the Starbeast, wild blue 436 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:58.140 yonder, and the giggle. 437 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:03.180 It's just really with the church on Ruby Road and Starbabies that 438 00:22:03.180 --> 00:22:05.640 I felt like the series was getting right away from me. 439 00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:09.420 And so I've no doubt that that was an artistic and stylistic 440 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:10.140 choice. 441 00:22:10.200 --> 00:22:12.839 I just can't quite fathom what's behind it. 442 00:22:12.900 --> 00:22:17.759 Yeah, I mean, I was never a huge fan of the 1st Russell T. Davies 443 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.119 era, but I did appreciate a lot of it, and I thought he was fine. 444 00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:22.920 There was some great, great episodes. 445 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:24.900 Some of the greatest series has ever produced, I felt. 446 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.200 I have criticisms of it, but you know, that's that's being Doctor 447 00:22:28.200 --> 00:22:28.799 Who fan. 448 00:22:28.859 --> 00:22:34.380 And I was terribly anxious about there being a 2nd Russell T Davis 449 00:22:34.380 --> 00:22:34.859 series. 450 00:22:34.920 --> 00:22:36.059 I went, no, God, no. 451 00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:40.019 I was so pleasantly surprised, not by the Starbeast, but by Wild 452 00:22:40.019 --> 00:22:41.099 Blue Yonder and the Giggle. 453 00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.500 I thought, okay, there are things about them that I don't like, but 454 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:47.339 they were everything that the previous era wasn't, which was 455 00:22:47.339 --> 00:22:49.380 engaging, entertaining. 456 00:22:49.440 --> 00:22:50.160 I was with it. 457 00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:56.519 And unfortunately, every shooty episode so far has not been that 458 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.240 I've returned, and especially with the Church on Ruby Road and 459 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:04.079 space babies, especially with those two, I was back to the 460 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.259 Chibnell era thing, of going, oh, what time is it? 461 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:08.339 How long has this got to go? 462 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.799 Sorry, do I just don't even care. 463 00:23:10.859 --> 00:23:14.099 And that's that I found bizarre. 464 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.240 One of the things I did like about this episode was the flashback 465 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.259 to the church on Ruby Road and what was coming through there and I 466 00:23:22.259 --> 00:23:25.500 liked the change in the memory and that sort of thing because I 467 00:23:25.500 --> 00:23:27.480 went, okay, there's something going on here and I want to know 468 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:27.720 more. 469 00:23:27.779 --> 00:23:30.900 I think we'll talk about that at the end of the episode, actually 470 00:23:30.900 --> 00:23:34.200 because there's quite a bit of that sort of up in the air at the 471 00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:38.700 moment and much more than we would expect, I think, from a Russell 472 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:39.779 T. Davis arc. 473 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:46.619 Let's move on to the 2nd episode that we saw, the Devil's Chord 474 00:23:46.619 --> 00:23:52.920 which seems to start in almost exactly the same way as its 475 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:58.140 spiritual predecessor, the giggle, where a sort of strange godlike 476 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:04.019 entity emerges somewhere in London in the 1920s and sort of 477 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.539 attaches itself to some weird historical event. 478 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:13.500 How do we feel that the introduction of Jinx Monsoon as the 479 00:24:13.500 --> 00:24:14.759 maestro went? 480 00:24:14.819 --> 00:24:16.680 In love chicks? 481 00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:22.019 Yeah, I'm probably more familiar with Drag Race than most of you 482 00:24:22.019 --> 00:24:22.259 here. 483 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:24.900 I know Todd's been watching it recently. 484 00:24:25.859 --> 00:24:28.500 Oh, compassion in it, didn't he? 485 00:24:29.579 --> 00:24:31.559 Thank you, Peter. 486 00:24:31.619 --> 00:24:35.160 I've watched I've watched a lot of the jinx and think that they 487 00:24:35.160 --> 00:24:36.180 are fantastic. 488 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:42.420 They are so witty and I've just enjoyed their performances so, so 489 00:24:42.420 --> 00:24:42.599 much. 490 00:24:42.660 --> 00:24:43.680 What about here? 491 00:24:45.180 --> 00:24:46.920 Disappointed. 492 00:24:47.940 --> 00:24:51.599 Oh, wow, that was that that's framed. 493 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.099 Oh, my God. 494 00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:56.640 Can I say, I wasn't disappointed. 495 00:24:56.700 --> 00:25:01.680 I thought they pitched this character really, really well. 496 00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:07.859 It really needed to be just over the job and ridiculous and like 497 00:25:07.859 --> 00:25:10.200 literally not a single piece of scenery. 498 00:25:10.259 --> 00:25:11.460 Well, it's left on shoot. 499 00:25:11.519 --> 00:25:12.240 It was fantastic. 500 00:25:12.299 --> 00:25:13.259 And then... 501 00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:15.900 And then after... 502 00:25:15.900 --> 00:25:19.440 Um, little Mr... 503 00:25:19.440 --> 00:25:20.759 HR bigger. 504 00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:30.180 Um, was was gotten rid of and um, Maestro had eaten um, the music 505 00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:35.880 from uh, from the gentleman's soul, the playing into the Doctor 506 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:38.039 Who theme, into the opening titles. 507 00:25:38.099 --> 00:25:39.720 It was just, I was like, they're going to do it. 508 00:25:39.839 --> 00:25:40.380 They going to do it. 509 00:25:40.440 --> 00:25:40.799 Yeah. 510 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:42.000 This is fantastic. 511 00:25:42.059 --> 00:25:44.039 I really love this episode. 512 00:25:44.099 --> 00:25:46.140 The ending, which we'll get to. 513 00:25:46.200 --> 00:25:50.400 Maybe that was a bit a bridge too far for me, but possibly because 514 00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:53.039 I just felt it was a bit messy, not the musical element. 515 00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:57.240 I love a musical, but overall, yes, I was much more whelmed. 516 00:25:57.839 --> 00:26:00.960 By this episode that I was by the last. 517 00:26:01.019 --> 00:26:05.460 I thought the maestro was a very entertaining character. 518 00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:09.660 And I think they were given a lot of importance in the story and 519 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:10.980 we got to know a lot about them. 520 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:17.099 I think the performance by Jinx Monsoon was pretty good. 521 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:20.339 It was, if you'll forgive me, saying so, a little bit one note. 522 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:26.460 I think I think, but I think that you could draw a line between 523 00:26:26.460 --> 00:26:30.299 that performance and someone like Linda Baron in Enlightenment. 524 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.940 There wasn't a huge amount of daylight between it. 525 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:36.900 I just think that maybe Jinx was not an accomplished enough 526 00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:41.039 performer to bring a lot of light and shade to the role. 527 00:26:41.099 --> 00:26:43.440 I'm not sure that we need it a lot, but maybe just a little more 528 00:26:43.440 --> 00:26:44.279 to win good. 529 00:26:44.339 --> 00:26:47.579 I really did enjoy the scenes, though, for what they were. 530 00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:53.460 I think that, you know, I love a good chewing the scenery 531 00:26:53.460 --> 00:26:53.940 performance. 532 00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:58.259 I think though, in order for that to be effective, it needs to 533 00:26:58.259 --> 00:27:01.980 start somewhere below 250%. 534 00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:06.000 And I probably would have enjoyed the performance a lot more had 535 00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:10.799 they started, had that opening sequence been much more measured 536 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:15.059 and quiet and almost whispering, and maybe, maybe the, the, the 537 00:27:15.059 --> 00:27:18.539 lid of the grand piano opens and out comes this person. 538 00:27:18.539 --> 00:27:23.700 And, you know, that, I think, would have been a way of me then 539 00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:27.480 dealing with the fact that the sooner he is chewed to oblivion as 540 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:28.500 as Nat James was saying. 541 00:27:28.559 --> 00:27:33.960 The point is, I think it was a regrettable performance and they 542 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:34.980 may be capable. 543 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:36.119 Maybe it's the way they're directed. 544 00:27:36.180 --> 00:27:39.420 I don't know, but it was, it was... 545 00:27:39.480 --> 00:27:42.059 I think that that's almost certainly what they were asked to do. 546 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.240 I think, and that's almost certainly why they were cast as well. 547 00:27:45.299 --> 00:27:48.299 I think that that's absolutely what they were going for. 548 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:50.579 I'm going to put my cards on the table and I think that this is 549 00:27:50.579 --> 00:27:53.339 one of the best stories of the modern era. 550 00:27:53.400 --> 00:27:58.799 And, um, I think it's really astoundingly moving and interesting 551 00:27:58.799 --> 00:28:00.720 and well done. 552 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:05.400 And the fact that it does things like the musical number at the 553 00:28:05.400 --> 00:28:09.900 end, the fact that it fools about with a diogesis of who's in 554 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:12.180 control of the show as a TV program. 555 00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.859 And that bit in the middle where we just sit there for like 3 or 4 556 00:28:16.859 --> 00:28:22.140 minutes and watch Millie play the piano, play Ruby's theme on the 557 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:25.799 piano, and then we just see the people in the window react to it. 558 00:28:25.859 --> 00:28:31.200 I think absolutely sells the promising and importance of music in 559 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:34.859 a way that lesser shows would have done by telling us about it. 560 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:38.460 And in fact, this show did that a little bit as well. 561 00:28:38.519 --> 00:28:42.359 And also, you get to see Tune Hudson be eaten. 562 00:28:42.420 --> 00:28:43.859 Yes, absolutely. 563 00:28:43.920 --> 00:28:45.359 I do want to see that. 564 00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:48.359 That's why Jinx. 565 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:49.319 The garden's closed. 566 00:28:49.500 --> 00:28:51.119 Yes, exactly. 567 00:28:51.180 --> 00:28:55.019 I will put my cards on the table and say, I did enjoy this episode 568 00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:57.240 a lot more than the previous one. 569 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:00.599 In fact, I think this is probably a template going forward for 570 00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:06.660 what Russell is trying to do with the latest series, and I'm not 571 00:29:06.660 --> 00:29:07.799 not on board with that. 572 00:29:07.859 --> 00:29:11.160 I thought that there were a few problems with this episode 573 00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:12.119 including again. 574 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:16.859 I didn't think it was particularly well structured, or had an 575 00:29:16.859 --> 00:29:18.839 enormous amount to say, really. 576 00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:21.000 I understood what it was saying, but it was all fairly basic. 577 00:29:21.059 --> 00:29:24.660 What I will say is that there were scenes in it which reminded me 578 00:29:24.660 --> 00:29:28.259 of very good Doctor Who in the past, including that wonderful 579 00:29:28.259 --> 00:29:32.220 scene where the doctor uses the Sonic to make everything silent 580 00:29:32.220 --> 00:29:35.339 and it just goes on for 90 seconds from that. 581 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:38.460 That was a fantastic scene and it gave me hope for the rest of the 582 00:29:38.460 --> 00:29:38.700 series. 583 00:29:38.759 --> 00:29:42.299 I think it is oddly structured, and I think that's intentional. 584 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:45.299 I think, you know, it doesn't have lots of reversals or reveals or 585 00:29:45.299 --> 00:29:45.960 anything like that. 586 00:29:46.019 --> 00:29:51.180 It is just, you know, we encounter maestro and we fight them until 587 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:55.259 we stop, you know, it is, it is very linear. 588 00:29:56.099 --> 00:30:02.940 But I think that just the weirdness of it is so well done. 589 00:30:03.000 --> 00:30:06.420 And we've been primed for that, I think, by the giggle. 590 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:10.019 You know, this has a lot in common with a giggle. 591 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:16.680 There's a reason that the toy maker is Maestro's father, and we 592 00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:20.700 actually discover that Maestro is the father of someone else as 593 00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:21.059 well. 594 00:30:21.119 --> 00:30:26.640 We're going to discover it, who turns up at the end in a twist 595 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:28.079 somehow. 596 00:30:28.140 --> 00:30:29.880 Oh, how twist. 597 00:30:29.880 --> 00:30:32.039 What a twist, Nathan. 598 00:30:32.160 --> 00:30:33.420 That's the only twist. 599 00:30:33.539 --> 00:30:40.019 No, but look, look, I just think that I will definitely pay that 600 00:30:40.019 --> 00:30:44.339 there is an interesting concept there, but it just upsets me so 601 00:30:44.339 --> 00:30:48.000 much how badly it was then executed. 602 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:51.539 Jinx Monsoon is known Neil Patrick Harris. 603 00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:52.619 Right? 604 00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:53.160 Absolutely. 605 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:58.259 Now, the toy makers over the topness in the giggle is sold by an 606 00:30:58.259 --> 00:31:03.779 absolutely top tier performer who is capable of walking the life 607 00:31:03.779 --> 00:31:07.440 he is capable of making something over the top and seniory chewing 608 00:31:07.440 --> 00:31:11.759 whilst at the same time you're taken into it as opposed to, I feel 609 00:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.400 like with Jinx, I always feel like I was just watching a child's 610 00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:16.019 pansomime in a bad way. 611 00:31:16.079 --> 00:31:19.140 And so you're right that there are some great, interesting things 612 00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:19.500 there. 613 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:21.720 And, you know, I great, that musical number at the end. 614 00:31:21.779 --> 00:31:23.579 I think I think it completely suits it. 615 00:31:23.640 --> 00:31:24.240 Yes, let's do that. 616 00:31:24.299 --> 00:31:28.440 It was a shame that they, for a budget, the monumental size that 617 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:28.859 it is. 618 00:31:28.920 --> 00:31:31.019 It would have been so much better had they have actually done a 619 00:31:31.019 --> 00:31:32.220 Beatles song or something. 620 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:34.200 That would have actually made it even even valuer. 621 00:31:34.259 --> 00:31:35.819 But anyway, maybe... 622 00:31:35.880 --> 00:31:38.160 That was actually the point, was that we can't afford the Beatles 623 00:31:38.220 --> 00:31:39.839 like even with a monumental budget. 624 00:31:39.900 --> 00:31:41.220 We can't get the Beatles songs. 625 00:31:41.279 --> 00:31:44.700 There are so many interesting things that this could have done 626 00:31:44.700 --> 00:31:45.480 with this concept. 627 00:31:45.539 --> 00:31:46.859 And, you know, I love music. 628 00:31:46.980 --> 00:31:49.380 I love this idea, right? 629 00:31:49.440 --> 00:31:56.700 It was just done so exquisitely badly and shallowly that that it's 630 00:31:56.700 --> 00:31:58.140 like, is this what Doctor Who's going to be? 631 00:31:58.200 --> 00:31:59.160 and that's what you're saying, Peter. 632 00:31:59.220 --> 00:32:02.220 I worry, you're saying, Peter, you said that you're hoping that 633 00:32:02.220 --> 00:32:05.160 this is the template that they're going to do for the next rest of 634 00:32:05.160 --> 00:32:06.660 the season and possibly the rest of this era. 635 00:32:06.720 --> 00:32:09.599 Oh, no, let me just let me just let me just say that someone. 636 00:32:09.660 --> 00:32:12.359 I'm not hopeful, but I'm more hopeful of this being a template 637 00:32:12.359 --> 00:32:13.500 than space babies being one. 638 00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:14.220 Okay. 639 00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:18.000 I am equally unhopeful because Space Babies was breathtakingly 640 00:32:18.000 --> 00:32:20.759 embarrassing, whereas this was breathtakingly disappointing, and I 641 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:24.059 think that it was disappointing because not just performance 642 00:32:24.059 --> 00:32:27.420 choices, you know, that's a thing, and sometimes that goes wrong 643 00:32:27.420 --> 00:32:33.240 but also just because of the of the sheer basicness of it, the 644 00:32:33.240 --> 00:32:36.420 shallowness of it, the kind of like, you know, it's, you know, and 645 00:32:36.420 --> 00:32:38.940 this goes back to what I was saying earlier, is that who is this 646 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.900 actually pitched at? 647 00:32:39.960 --> 00:32:42.660 I know it's not supposed to be pitched at us and that's fine, but 648 00:32:42.660 --> 00:32:46.859 I just can't understand the modern teenager, the modern child 649 00:32:46.859 --> 00:32:48.839 being impressed by this. 650 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:50.940 And that, I think, is what I'm what I'm getting at. 651 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:51.960 It's just not clever. 652 00:32:52.019 --> 00:32:53.099 You know what I mean? 653 00:32:53.220 --> 00:32:57.119 Yeah, I think you may be overestimating the extent to which Doctor 654 00:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.220 Who has historically been clever. 655 00:32:59.279 --> 00:33:02.579 And I do think that there are clever things here. 656 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.660 I actually think as well that this episode has more to recommend 657 00:33:06.660 --> 00:33:10.859 it than either space babies or the Church on Ruby Road did. 658 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:13.259 I mean, I broadly do agree with you, Simon. 659 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.920 I found this a disappointing episode as well, but there was green 660 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:17.579 shoots there. 661 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:21.900 There was a lot which I found to enjoy, I think Jinx Monsoon's 662 00:33:21.900 --> 00:33:25.799 performance was very entertaining, even if it wasn't very deep to 663 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:26.279 my eye. 664 00:33:26.339 --> 00:33:30.299 There were certain scenes, which I thought reminded me of very 665 00:33:30.299 --> 00:33:31.500 good doctor from the past. 666 00:33:31.559 --> 00:33:32.579 I mentioned one earlier. 667 00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:37.920 I also think that the scene at the end, the dance number, was a 668 00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:40.200 perfect ending and was actually quite well put together. 669 00:33:40.259 --> 00:33:44.819 And actually, that made me think about context because if this had 670 00:33:44.819 --> 00:33:48.480 been an episode 2 in a series which had started with a very 671 00:33:48.480 --> 00:33:52.319 traditional episode one, if it had started with partners in crime 672 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.099 or the 11th hour or Smith and Jones, I would actually be thinking 673 00:33:56.099 --> 00:34:00.900 of the devil's chord as a delightful whimsical episode and we 674 00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:01.859 would get back on track. 675 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:05.039 Instead, this feels like the new norm and that's unsettling to 676 00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:05.220 me. 677 00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:09.300 I think you're overestimating how much partners in crime in the 678 00:34:09.300 --> 00:34:13.559 11th hour were traditional when they when they were 1st 679 00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:14.460 broadcast. 680 00:34:14.519 --> 00:34:17.639 No, Nathan, I think something like the 11th hour was really kind 681 00:34:17.639 --> 00:34:21.900 of, for me, when that went out, and, you know, it maybe how many 682 00:34:21.900 --> 00:34:25.920 years ago, 14 years ago, but when you're an adult in their 50s, 14 683 00:34:25.920 --> 00:34:26.639 years is nothing. 684 00:34:26.699 --> 00:34:30.179 And I will say that I was utterly captivated by that, and even 685 00:34:30.179 --> 00:34:32.219 partners in crime, which I didn't think was particularly good, but 686 00:34:32.219 --> 00:34:34.320 at least I bought it and it all just sort of was happening. 687 00:34:34.380 --> 00:34:38.159 Yes, I can draw the line directly between partners and crime and 688 00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:42.119 city and city of death or the horns of Nimon or the time warrior. 689 00:34:42.179 --> 00:34:43.500 Any of those stories. 690 00:34:43.619 --> 00:34:44.940 I draw a line. 691 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:46.619 Partners and client. 692 00:34:46.679 --> 00:34:48.300 And actually, all of those stories. 693 00:34:48.360 --> 00:34:51.059 I really enjoy, including partners in crime. 694 00:34:51.119 --> 00:34:54.539 I'm just not sure whether I can draw a line from the devil's court 695 00:34:54.539 --> 00:34:57.840 and more specifically space babies to any Doctor Who that I've 696 00:34:57.840 --> 00:34:58.440 enjoyed in the past. 697 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:04.079 I enjoyed this much more than the previous episode and there was a 698 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:05.940 lot of stuff in there that I really did like. 699 00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:09.239 And Jinx's performance. 700 00:35:09.300 --> 00:35:11.940 I wanted more light and shade. 701 00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:16.019 But I'm looking forward to going back and rewatching this one. 702 00:35:16.079 --> 00:35:17.880 And I'm going to do that. 703 00:35:17.940 --> 00:35:21.300 And I think in the context of the season it's going to be very 704 00:35:21.300 --> 00:35:22.619 interesting to see what it's like. 705 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:28.320 I wanted more links with McCartney and Lenin and the payoff 706 00:35:28.320 --> 00:35:28.619 there. 707 00:35:28.679 --> 00:35:31.320 I just thought it was very pedestrian to get to that. 708 00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:35.219 Even the doctor coming up with the notes and the chords, like I 709 00:35:35.219 --> 00:35:39.000 just wanted a bit more story around that and them. 710 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:43.019 And I guess I didn't really buy the actor playing Paul McCartney 711 00:35:43.019 --> 00:35:43.920 very much. 712 00:35:43.980 --> 00:35:47.400 Like I liked Lennon, but I didn't like the other guy. 713 00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:50.460 So those elements I struggled with. 714 00:35:50.519 --> 00:35:53.039 There were times when I thought Jinx was absolutely wonderful. 715 00:35:53.099 --> 00:35:56.400 I guess I had a really high expectation of what they were going to 716 00:35:56.400 --> 00:35:59.280 deliver and they were obviously directed in a certain way. 717 00:35:59.519 --> 00:36:04.320 I also, I guess, another positive that I really liked was a lot of 718 00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:07.320 the backstory stuff, you know, where the doctor lived in Totter's 719 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:11.820 Lane and with his granddaughter and then other things that the 720 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:16.380 maestro mentioned to do with the toy maker and legions and all 721 00:36:16.380 --> 00:36:17.340 that. 722 00:36:17.400 --> 00:36:20.159 Again, I liked all of that through line in there. 723 00:36:20.219 --> 00:36:25.199 As I said, I thought this episode was a step up from the previous 724 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:25.739 one. 725 00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:30.480 Maybe if I'd had a week between them, I might have had a different 726 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:33.780 attitude because I was coming off that 1st episode going, 0 my 727 00:36:33.780 --> 00:36:34.199 goodness. 728 00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:38.460 Like, I found it a train wreck is this one going to be as bad, you 729 00:36:38.460 --> 00:36:38.699 know? 730 00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.300 And so I had that expectation in my mind. 731 00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.219 Anyway, that's where I'm at with things. 732 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:47.340 I think that's a really good point about the structure towards the 733 00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:48.179 end, Todd. 734 00:36:48.239 --> 00:36:49.260 I think I agree with you. 735 00:36:49.440 --> 00:36:52.079 If it flowed a bit better. 736 00:36:52.139 --> 00:36:56.039 But I think also that must be a deliberate choice to cut it that 737 00:36:56.039 --> 00:37:00.719 way, to be off-putting, to to break the 4th wall, to say this is 738 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.639 this is not normal, even for whatever the new normal of Doctor Who 739 00:37:05.639 --> 00:37:06.000 is. 740 00:37:06.059 --> 00:37:11.099 This is, this is us kind of going, the rules of reality, liking 741 00:37:11.099 --> 00:37:11.519 the giggle. 742 00:37:11.579 --> 00:37:17.039 The rules of reality are being bent and, you know, we can have a 743 00:37:17.039 --> 00:37:19.920 musical number at the end because it's digetic. 744 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:22.980 That joke was fantastic. 745 00:37:23.039 --> 00:37:25.320 Oh, I thought that music was non-digetic. 746 00:37:25.380 --> 00:37:28.619 I mean, yes, that joke was fantastic, but that actually made me 747 00:37:28.619 --> 00:37:30.000 think along those same lines. 748 00:37:30.300 --> 00:37:33.000 Is there something bigger going on here, is doctor making a 749 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:36.179 comment about something being non-digetic, the fact that the rules 750 00:37:36.179 --> 00:37:38.039 are breaking down and there's something going on. 751 00:37:38.099 --> 00:37:40.739 And of course, there's a lot of internet speculation about the 752 00:37:40.739 --> 00:37:44.699 fact that the actress, Susan Twist, is in each episode and they 753 00:37:44.699 --> 00:37:49.019 talked about Susan a lot in this episode, which makes us think, of 754 00:37:49.019 --> 00:37:51.059 course, is there going to be a Susan Twist. 755 00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:55.019 I'm going to put my cards on the table and say that Susan is going 756 00:37:55.019 --> 00:37:59.579 to come back as the Rani and Jinx Monsoon is going to turn out to 757 00:37:59.579 --> 00:38:01.260 be the father of Melanie Bush. 758 00:38:01.320 --> 00:38:03.960 Well, let's actually, let's actually talk a little bit about 759 00:38:03.960 --> 00:38:04.260 that. 760 00:38:04.320 --> 00:38:09.300 So I think Susan Twist 1st appears in Wildloo Yonder, and she's 761 00:38:09.300 --> 00:38:13.079 the person that the camera follows with the news that something 762 00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:15.539 needs to be told to Sir Isaac Newton. 763 00:38:15.599 --> 00:38:20.159 And she has been in, I think she's in church on Ruby Road. 764 00:38:20.219 --> 00:38:26.579 She was one of the people who was abandoning baby farm beta and 765 00:38:26.579 --> 00:38:29.400 delivering her message, saying how sort of terrible it was. 766 00:38:29.460 --> 00:38:35.280 She was the woman who sold the doctor the cups of tea for an 767 00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:36.840 incredible amount of money. 768 00:38:36.900 --> 00:38:39.539 And so she has been appearing over and over again. 769 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:40.739 She's from Brookside. 770 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:41.460 Is that right, Peter? 771 00:38:41.639 --> 00:38:44.099 Oh, it's never Brookside viewer. 772 00:38:44.340 --> 00:38:48.119 I was just Googling it to find out who she was that says 773 00:38:48.119 --> 00:38:48.840 Coronation Street. 774 00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:50.460 Coronation Street. 775 00:38:50.519 --> 00:38:51.659 Okay, so she's known. 776 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:54.179 She's being recognised, I think, by the people at home. 777 00:38:54.239 --> 00:38:56.039 So we've got her. 778 00:38:56.099 --> 00:39:01.800 We have Mrs. Flood from the end of church the church on Ruby Road 779 00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:05.460 who knows what a TARDIS is, although she didn't seem to do that at 780 00:39:05.460 --> 00:39:06.659 the beginning of the episode. 781 00:39:06.719 --> 00:39:18.420 The readout on Baby Farm Beta had 9.9 for Mavity. of planet. 782 00:39:18.480 --> 00:39:23.460 And given that the previous RTD era, It's like when we talk about 783 00:39:23.460 --> 00:39:24.539 arcs. 784 00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:27.000 RTD would just have a word. 785 00:39:27.059 --> 00:39:30.480 You know, the only arc that was really, particularly interesting 786 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.159 was the Saxon arc where Saxon at the end of episode 12 travels 787 00:39:35.159 --> 00:39:38.639 back in time to the end of season two, which is why he's been 788 00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:39.599 appearing all the way through. 789 00:39:39.659 --> 00:39:41.159 And that's kind of fun and interesting. 790 00:39:41.219 --> 00:39:43.199 It's not sort of super a big deal. 791 00:39:43.260 --> 00:39:46.380 Nathan, of course, don't forget about the Ark as well. 792 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:47.940 That's awesome. 793 00:39:48.539 --> 00:39:51.300 Is that Doctor Who's 1st art? 794 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:52.800 It might be. 795 00:39:52.860 --> 00:39:56.340 So there's a lot more on the table, I think. 796 00:39:56.400 --> 00:39:58.380 Oh my god, there's so much more. 797 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.179 There has been. 798 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:02.039 And it'll be interesting to see what happens. 799 00:40:02.039 --> 00:40:05.159 Because Moffat had more sophisticated arcs, but they tended to be 800 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:08.639 just about the relationships between the regulars and semi 801 00:40:07.739 --> 00:40:08.639 regulars. 802 00:40:08.639 --> 00:40:13.139 And sometimes like conspicuously in season 9, he'll go, ah, yeah 803 00:40:13.139 --> 00:40:13.500 whatever. 804 00:40:13.559 --> 00:40:16.139 It was a thing, you know, and it won't go anywhere. 805 00:40:16.199 --> 00:40:17.579 And I don't mind that. 806 00:40:17.639 --> 00:40:21.000 I didn't think that that was a, you know, the great war crime that 807 00:40:21.000 --> 00:40:23.099 so many other people seemed to think it was. 808 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.940 Um, so I'm interested because this seems to be quite a different 809 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:27.300 approach. 810 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:28.739 Well, it is. 811 00:40:28.800 --> 00:40:31.980 I think there's a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff to do with Ruby, the 812 00:40:31.980 --> 00:40:33.300 hidden song in Ruby. 813 00:40:33.360 --> 00:40:36.960 The one who waits is almost here, the oldest one, like there's a 814 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:41.159 whole heap of other stuff going on, not only with ruby, but with 815 00:40:41.159 --> 00:40:44.340 those other characters and with everybody connected with the toy 816 00:40:44.340 --> 00:40:44.760 makers. 817 00:40:44.820 --> 00:40:48.420 So I'm actually quite confident that Russell's going to tie all 818 00:40:48.420 --> 00:40:50.880 this together, whether we like it or not. 819 00:40:50.940 --> 00:40:55.980 That's another question, but he's always managed to pull all the 820 00:40:55.980 --> 00:40:57.239 threads together at some point. 821 00:40:57.360 --> 00:41:00.360 So I'm actually looking quite forward to the last few episodes of 822 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:01.679 the season to see where it all goes. 823 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:06.059 I've got a few things to plug before we go. 824 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:11.579 We're right near the end of our 1st season of 500 year diary, which 825 00:41:11.579 --> 00:41:13.739 has dealt with the idea of new beginnings. 826 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:18.239 The episode that we released most recently was on the Torchwood 827 00:41:18.239 --> 00:41:19.440 Pilot. 828 00:41:19.500 --> 00:41:22.800 Everything changes. and we are going to be back next week for one 829 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:27.900 more episode on the Sarah Jane Adventures New Year's Day special 830 00:41:27.900 --> 00:41:29.639 called Invasion of the Bane. 831 00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:35.280 Um, Startling Barbara Bain continues, uh, and so keep an eye out 832 00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:37.260 for that. 833 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:39.900 It is pretty much the same pain. 834 00:41:42.780 --> 00:41:47.579 And of course, maximum power and untitled Star Trek Project. 835 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.519 If you want to know about the Flight Through Entirety podcast 836 00:41:50.519 --> 00:41:55.980 Empire, go to any one of our websites and go slash podcasts and 837 00:41:55.980 --> 00:41:59.820 there will be a massive and embarrassingly long list of all of the 838 00:41:59.820 --> 00:42:01.320 podcasts that we're involved in. 839 00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:07.019 In which case, all that remains is for me to say, until next time 840 00:42:07.019 --> 00:42:11.039 remember that if the doctor can hear the incidental music that 841 00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:14.940 might explain the mood that Pertwe is in throughout the claws of 842 00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:15.480 Axos. 843 00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:18.360 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 844 00:42:18.420 --> 00:42:19.559 See you soon. 845 00:42:19.619 --> 00:42:20.880 Ta-ta. 846 00:42:20.940 --> 00:42:21.659 Good night. 847 00:42:21.719 --> 00:42:22.679 Bye bye. 848 00:42:22.739 --> 00:42:30.119 And what about Doctor Who and the Silurians, Nathan. in quite a 849 00:42:30.119 --> 00:42:30.780 good mood for that.