Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and
bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who Flashcast, which also
has a gin and tonic division.
It's me.
I'm Nathan.
I'm Todd.
I'm James.
And I'm an antiques roadshow collection of Nick Courtney's old
stick on moustaches for this one.
Guess which one I am. 1970 story one.
The one I'm shooting's top left.
Yes, it's really fake.
So there was a video release.
I think it looks convincing.
I want to see them bring out all of Nick's old furies as well.
I want them to end the season with the Clydesdale he was wearing
by about the time of the season or something. such a thing.
Yeah, yeah.
There was a video released this week where Shooty sort of talked
through his look and he has a slight blue tint in his hair, which
is kind of exciting.
And it is a fake moustache and he said, I've got to stick on
moustache because I've been playing a teenager for the last 4
years.
So presumably he can and will grow his own moustache for later
episodes.
All right, so we are watching.
No one said anything about Jody's, haven't they?
I'm so relieved.
So we have watched the Church on Ruby Road by Russell T. Davis, the
Christmas special for 2023 and we have some hot takes to dish up.
But first, let's acknowledge the return of Davina McColl to the
show.
I just saw Shane Horrocks.
Jane Horrock's like, oh, do they nimical?
Finally, I realised who she was.
Okay.
She's such a good sport.
She's really good, isn't she?
To send herself up and allow herself to be injured in such
wonderful ways and be and be killed off and then resurrected.
I mean, obviously, UK fans will know her much better than just the
average viewer, say, here in Australia, but, you know, I just
thought, oh, I thought it was quite delicious.
Just, just, she was, she was able to really take the Mickey out of
herself and I like the way they used her.
That pullback where the camera just pulls back to reveal, firstly
that she's got an arm in a sling and then she's in a wheelchair
with a giant boot when she's on the call, is pretty funny.
Then it turns out the Christmas tree starts, and it stab it
through the head.
You know, Russell's playing on that, don't you?
It's in so many of John Walter's interviews, he talks about as
being a seminal memory for him. when the Christmas tree fell on
grandma and he put it in a divine movie back in the early 70s.
I'm trying to remember which one.
It was female trouble.
It is.
Well, desperately, it's the same thing.
And yeah, yeah.
So I know he said, you'll standby for lots more John Waters
moments.
I hope it doesn't get too...
Yes.
Very much so.
And she got trampled by a moose.
She fell off a boat on dry land.
I mean, it's so ridiculous.
So good.
I just kept laughing.
Just terrific.
So we have the new doctor.
We saw the new new doctor for about 15 minutes at the end of the
last episode.
How do you think he acquitted himself this week?
And let's start with James.
James has the hottest and at least well considered hot take on
this episode because he has just switched off the closing credits
to join the call.
What did you think?
Oh, I really enjoyed it.
It was so much fun.
So much fun.
With 2 musical numbers.
So good.
Well, a musical number.
And, and, and, and reprise.
It was fantastic.
So gay.
Okay.
And shooty?
Oh.
Oh my god.
That voice.
Yeah, voice.
Oh, I probably shouldn't talk about this on this podcast, we might
have to raise the raise the rating, put an explicit tag on it.
But he's doing the accent.
His own accent, isn't he?
Because you're getting Scottish. his own accent is Scottish.
No, that is that's his accent.
That's how he goes.
Okay, because I was hearing some islander in there.
He did a little bit.
There was an everything in there at one point, but basically I
think, you know, you can hear the Scottish in his accent as well.
And I think I think it's being demonstrated the doctor should
always be Scottish, I think.
Yeah, no, he's got a Scottish, real London, mixed, mixed accents
often you do when you come to part of the UK.
When you're as a child, you end up with a wonderful hybrid, an
accident.
Todd, what did you think?
I think he is just extraordinary.
Last week when he, when the last episode when he came in.
He made David Tennant, the guest star in the last 15 years, he
suddenly was the doctor, and he was the doctor straight up from
this.
It's like Tom Baker taking over from John Pertree.
Like, there's no, I don't think anybody's ever matched that.
You just forget about John within a moment and it's Tom.
And here, shoot, he did it last week and and into this.
I don't think anybody has matched this.
Matt Smith came close for me, but he just is the doctor.
Like I am just so impressed.
Richard?
What Todd said is actually really true.
And I wasn't really considering that part of it because I was
looking at all the other plotting and construction and and, you
know, at Russell's old tricks.
I was chatting to friendly acquaintance of the podcast, John
Richards, this morning about it, and he doesn't hold back in his
opinions, you know, we all love John, and, you know, he's just so
smart, everything he says, and he really didn't like this, and I
had to say, I agreed with everything he said, but we didn't touch
on Judy's performance, and it absolutely wins it over.
That, and seeing Jerry Hallowell again, back on the blocks doing
that song number.
That was lucky.
She's looking well.
Well, she, you know, a career revival.
Don't expect too much.
But you're right.
It's the whole thing that they went through with Matt Smith, isn't
it?
There was someone else they were considering they'd already
interviewed, you know, they'd already done the tests and then they
shooty came in and he did.
Apparently, it was again, is this your understanding as well from
all the bits we've been reading?
within minutes?
And he really does steal the scenes.
He's just, he's electrifying.
You cannot not look at him when he's on the screen. doesn't even
Anita Dobson.
Even Angie.
Oh, by the way, that's who that is.
That is actually Angie from the old Vic and Dimensions in Time is
now Canon.
You watch. tongue tune.
That'll be Brian May, a husband.
But yeah, I agree.
No, she's done the thing.
Bruce Sanders.
Like it was released as a single with lyrics.
Call anyone can fall in love.
He's sung with a theme tune taste. to a millionnaire ex member of
Queen.
Yeah, I suppose you could.
Shooty, shooty is extraordinary.
I didn't even hate the clothes and I really didn't like the photos
and I thought this is so tricked up and it's, it's so cash you
cashing in on, on, you know, on the notion of a complete reboot
and you've gone as far as you possibly can.
But it did look like my childhood.
I remember cop shows in the 70s with people dressed like that and
every other thing.
And it was, he is so charming and how lovely is Millie?
Yeah, let's talk about her.
So, I had a little bit of a reservation about this because I
always really liked Russell's less likeable characters, ranging
from, you know, the 3 mothers and Neres and Adderley's.
This time he's given himself the challenge of creating 3 very nice
people.
Um, uh, merely um, Carla and Cherry.
And um, I really liked.
I really found myself quite liking the family.
Yes, I agree.
The family, it's quite a different kind of family from the ones
he's written before.
Like it's a, it's a non-traditional family and that, you know
we've got a foundling that has been adopted, um, which is common.
It's common.
But it's obviously it's not there.
Like the, like the majority of society.
And The fostering experience was dealt with in quite a, quite a
thoughtful way.
Especially when she is eaten in the past, that stark moment where
the timeline changes and suddenly it shows how her mother never
became the person that she she was meant to be.
There's that line in it somewhere earlier in the episode where she
says, she made my life.
Like having her make my life and and then you see that this like
broken woman who never really found happiness or fulfilment
because this child was taken, it really, that was quite moving.
I really liked how she says, I'm perfectly happy as I am.
Why would I need a daughter, and I think that that's such a clever
line because it's telling us exactly the opposite.
And I did think some of that dialogue was a little bit too
exposition-y because you had to sort of create this timeline in
about 2 minutes before sort of heading off somewhere.
Some of the dialogue was a little bit lacking in sort of subtext
but I thought it did what it had to do very quickly and did it
pretty effectively.
Is that all you thought of that?
Because for me, that was the dramatic moment that saved the whole
episode from being just another piece of Disney Christmas TV.
Yeah.
When he showed how those actors could actually play drama and true
depth and true tragedy in just a flick of a moment.
Because again, he pushed them very hard, very fast.
And that the woman who played Ruby's mother, I just think she's
the most extraordinary thing I've seen on the show for, well, at
least since the last episode.
But, you know, she's fantastic.
Absolutely had me convinced and I wasn't willing to be.
So, yeah, just great.
Todd.
I thought Millie.
Had a great energy about her.
She reminds me of, I don't know, I think it's perhaps Katie
Manning in her 2nd year on the show.
Like, there was just something about her, and her chemistry, which
duty was fantastic, and I really, really loved her performance.
Cherry and Carla.
I had problems with at the beginning because they would just seem
to be so lovely.
Like, I am used to these characters not getting on with the doctor
but I just loved cherries whole line about getting a cup of tea
all the way through.
I just kept laughing every time I came back to her and she's not
getting her tea.
I thought that was great.
And picking up on what James said.
It was just so good at the end when the timelines changed and just
having them subtly shift those characters, you could see what
those actresses can do rather than just playing nice.
And I really like that.
I thought they were good.
And I look forward to seeing where things go with them.
All right.
So yeah, let's talk about the goblins then. and the song.
I have to say that I did come away from this episode thinking it
was a little bit thin because you have 2 encounters with the
goblins and there's not really any sort of obstacles to overcome
and we sort of we very quickly defeat them and then we're off.
Um, But, uh, you know, it's a Christmas special and maybe it can
afford to be a little bit less complicated and I think it's going
to be the onboarding experience for a lot of people as well.
And so keeping it light perhaps is a thing.
But I did kind of think, you know, this is 54 minutes and it seems
to have less incident in it than, say, partners in crime or Smith
and Jones.
Look, I have to agree with you there.
I mean, I loved all the little goblins and I loved the look of the
goblin king.
It would have been nice to have had some dialogue with the goblin
king talking to perhaps the doctor or some kind of showdown just
being stabbed and the whole thing ship disappearing because you
kill the main villain and all.
And that changes all the timeline and they just that vanish.
But I loved the song.
I thought the song was so much fun.
And then, you know, when the doctor, Ruby, started singing to
defeat that.
Look, some people might complain about that, but I just sort of
worked so perfectly in the context of the episode.
What else are you going to do?
Get them to sing along and escape?
I thought that was so much fun, but I do think that the whole, I
agree with you, Nathan.
Like there's not much incident there per se.
And so I did think that was a bit sort of rushed at the end or
there could have been a bit more there to give things a bit more
substance.
But it's a Christmas special.
I'm prepared to, you know, sort of let that, you know, slide to
one side.
I mean, in a way, we have a lot of goblins early on before we get
to the confrontation, which is around about halfway through the
episode.
We just don't see them and it's like the unseen Doctor Who monster
that kind of reveals itself at the end of episode one of a 4
parter.
You know, you see their hands and you hear them giggle and you see
the photograph and all of that sort of thing.
But that moment where Millie comes in and just is clearly
extemporising.
She can't think of a 3rd rhyme.
Isn't it like, you know, it's nice to meet you.
It's nice to greet you.
It's nice to delete you or something like some stupid made-up word
because you can't come up with a 3rd lyric.
Like all of that is just like, yes, I'm in this world.
I'm going to participate as well.
And Judy singing is so great and he's so effortlessly sexy.
Like he is so, do you know what I mean?
He's just so kind of hot and self-possessed and yeah, like sexy
and sort of, you know, even more so, I think, than tenant is when
he's at his most sort of swaggering, dragging up in one of Jamie's
old kilts to get up to the desk.
That's great.
That moment.
I mean, that's unthinkable with anyone else.
I don't know, maybe Capaldi.
But, um, actually.
He's been to the Inferno.
Yeah, that's right.
I was waiting for someone to actually come up to shooting and tell
them that they dug his fab gear, actually.
I was a little bit disappointed.
What did you think, Richard of the goblins?
Look, again, I was sort of coloured by what John was saying this
morning and he was just like really down on the whole Disney thing
but I've got to say, it's exactly what Russell's given us many
times before, we've always loved it, putting in custard for
Christmas, and I can't say that they have any less motivation than
many of the characters we enjoyed back before 1989 as well.
I mean, really, they're just the cheater people with less hair.
Really, I think they're just doing it for fun, aren't they?
Yeah, yeah.
I just had to laugh my head off with at that one that wanted to be
eaten by the goblin king.
It was so funny.
I mean, I will have one...
I will have one criticism of them is that in that song, I just
felt that the lead singer, like the actual animation of her mouth
to the lyrics just didn't fit for me.
Like I kind of thought it needs to be bigger and out there and I
just never got that.
Like every time I cut back, I could have been anybody.
Like, I mean, that was the one criticism.
Yeah, manipulates the mouths to CG afterwards.
To be fair, the spice scores were never really in sync anyway.
So we can't believe Josh.
Did you notice with the goblins, did you notice there was a point
where I thought, I know your faces.
I know, 0 my god, you've got Emma Stone's eyes.
All of you.
So, you know, the lead the lead singer of the that Goblin band is
Janice Goblin.
Yes.
Yeah.
Hence, hit it, Janice.
Like, doesn't, doesn't the doctor say that?
Janice gone.
Yes.
Apparently the woman who did it is just a sort of session singer
and she was on social media going, oh my god, I'm in the credits
of Doctor Who.
So she is sort of hugely excited.
I mean, the great thing about it is that that song has been out
for ages and we've heard it and it's really, really catchy.
It really works.
And to top it all off, suddenly the doctor and Millie seeing at
the end of it in a way that they dote in the released track and
that's just tremendous.
It's so good.
So good.
Well, also, it did end up charting as well.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. in the week before Christmas.
I think got to number 12.
Oh that's adorable.
In the UK.
Yeah.
Oh, sweet.
I did say it up around the top on the day of release, but
obviously that was just a lot of middle-aged nerds downloading it
on Spotify.
All right. repeatedly.
That's right.
I had a script.
I wrote a script to do it automatically.
So we have one more thing. we have a character in this episode who
is so important that she's able to break into the closing credits
and that's Mrs. Flood, who lives next door.
We spoke about her earlier, when I was a child in the 1st house
that I lived in, Mr. and Mrs. Flood lived next door, and they gave
me a Bible for my 1st birthday.
I know.
So they were very sweet.
What do we think of Mrs. Fudd?
Do we have any Mrs. Flood related theories beyond Rani is an
anagram of the word rain?
Look, I'm not even going to try, like there's so much stuff out
there, like flood, river, pond, you know, and put all that.
You've already got flood, rain, Rani.
I mean, is it ruby from the future?
I think that would be ridiculous.
I mean, personally, I just think it has to be dodo, recast, that
have been great.
And, you know, we just have to wait and see if it's like the one
who waits, you know, because she's waiting on his seat.
So who knows?
Who knows who it would be, and I'm not even going to try and pick
Russell's brain on this one, but I'm sure we will be surprised
whether we're delighted?
Well, that's another question.
I think I think she's the split version of JD's doctor.
Oh, man, by generated.
She died on a cliff somewhere.
It could be Taeun.
Could be Te-Tayone.
Could be.
Hang on.
She died on a cliff.
That's Una Stubbs at the end of the young ones, isn't it?
Or at least with Cliff Richard in summer holiday.
Oh my god, she's in his tubs.
I still say it's dimensions in time and Russell's going to do the
most evil thing he possibly can for the end of the year and he'll
make that canon.
And throw a little thing in just as he's very sweetly made Jody
Cannon and reinforces that with every story.
Just little moments.
You know, mentioning the flux, little things like that.
Just so...
I'm an a fan.
Yeah, just so the cranky fan folk out there can't say, never
happened.
I do like the fact that he sort of weaved in the fact that the
doctor said that like he's he was found or adopted or that sort of
thing.
So, you know, it was done subtly it was done.
You didn't have to, you know, have huge explanation about things
in a way that when it was 1st introduced, it wasn't.
So, you know, I kind of like that, you know?
And there's the bond there.
The bond between...
Well, because remember that the goblins thrive on coincidence.
And so what we have is the coincidence of 3 foundlings in the
story.
We've got Lulu Bell.
Fantastic name.
And we've got Ruby, and we've got the doctor, all of whom are
foundlings.
And I can't help thinking that that's going to play into whatever
is coming up.
All right.
Does anyone have any closing statement?
Yeah, I just want to say, like, I mean, I liked it and I enjoyed
it, but I did have some problems with some of the direction.
Okay.
I felt at times in the flat with them at various points.
I just thought some of the shots, you know, the doctor looking for
Ruby and then her coming back.
I just thought at times it was, I don't know what it was.
They were just either held a bit too long or just the way it was
don't know.
There were just things where at times in the direction I just
thought, hmm, you know, I just wanted this to be a bit tighter or
there was just something that stopped me from being in it as much
as the previous 3 stories where I was really invested and felt in
it.
Here I felt like I was observing a bit more rather than being in
the action.
I just felt that at times.
Um, look, I would have to agree with you on that.
So I, I, I mean, Overall, I found the episode very enjoyable.
The cast was great.
The soundtrack was great, but there was something missing the
direction.
Having said that What was quite pleasing to see was that.
The production team. have taken the time to try and make sure that
they liked the people of colour.
Well, Yeah. in this series, which is a huge problem in the film
industry, and the film industry where basically everything's a bit
for white faces.
Yeah, and that's so interesting.
It's problematic.
And they did not do it in this.
And I'm hoping that's not a one off.
Given like we've got a black lead and a number of black returning
characters.
It would be good to see that that is something they're actively
doing, not just by chance, or because they had a black director
this week.
That was that was quite a positive thing to say.
And Richard?
I'm totally on board with all of your statements.
It's funny, I was thinking the same thing watching it, that Todd's
mentioned about the direction and the circular nature of moving as
if you're in a spiral or in a mouse maze in the flat.
But I thought that might be a meta nod to the way that time is
both forwards and backwards and that Millie is discovering that
her new friend is in fact a time traveller.
But if that's the case, it may not have come over, and I might
just be reading into something that, as Todd says, is actually
just the director, making people run around to give us a sense of
action.
But I did get the sense that the repetition of the and the
circular movements of the camera over and over again running
through that little apartment was to sort of suggest that time is
spiralling back and forward.
But if no one else picked up on that, then it probably didn't
happen.
All right, I think we might wind it up.
I do want to observe the fact that Mavity is still in operation.
So, uh, that's better to be explained. doing it forever.
That's it.
That's just the new thing in Doctor Who.
It's called Maavity.
Oh, yes.
Just to screw over the fandom.
You do it.
Yep, brilliant.
Never explain it.
All right.
We have just finished... another bottle.
We've just finished another bottle.
We've just finished FTE series 9 with our episode on the Husbands
of Reader Song, which came out on Christmas Day, when you might
have been busy with something else.
So you could go back and give that a listen.
And we announce at the end of that that we will be back with FTE
for Christmas in July, and in the meantime, that we will be
appearing in a new by generated form as 500 year diary.
So we've spawned not one, but 2 podcasts, and that will be coming
out sometime early next year.
We also have Startling Barbara Bain, which continues unabated, and
I think we're planning to release one more episode before the end
of the year on collision course, and we have maximum power
continuing to power its way through series C, and of course
untitled Star Trek project, we'll be back early in the new year.
I think that's all I have to plug.
Is that all I have to plug?
Do you ever rest, me?
I know.
How does he get the crumbs off the floor?
I just think 2 hours cleaning.
He's made 4 podcasts.
He has a very he has a very good scheduler.
Yes, that's exactly it.
Without her, broomstick attached to his bum.
So you can just do the cleaning while he's typing all day.
I am not the broomstick.
Hello, darling.
All right.
So in that case, all that remains.
So in that case, all that remains is for me to say, until next
time, remember that the theory that all of the world's accidents
are caused by goblins may be superficially plausible, it's
unlikely to be a valid defence to a charge of criminal
negligence.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
See you soon.
Ta-ta.
Good Vennings.