WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 11:57:34 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.359 Hello, dear listen, and welcome back to the 2nd Great and Bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flash cast that didn't vote for the leopards eating people's faces party. 2 00:00:09.419 --> 00:00:11.580 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:12.300 I'm Adam. 4 00:00:12.359 --> 00:00:13.380 I'm Brendan. 5 00:00:13.439 --> 00:00:14.640 I'm James. 6 00:00:14.699 --> 00:00:16.140 I'm Peter. 7 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:19.199 I'm Simon and I'm Todd. 8 00:00:19.260 --> 00:00:38.280 So we are here to talk about the final episode of this series, and indeed this era of Doctor Who, the reality war by Russell T. Davies, and I am going to do a quick whip round the table for 1st impression. 9 00:00:38.340 --> 00:00:40.560 Because that's what we do here. 10 00:00:40.619 --> 00:00:44.159 So let's start with, I don't know, Todd. 11 00:00:44.219 --> 00:00:53.039 I really, really enjoyed the 1st half and I, and then the 2nd half, I quite liked, but I think it's got a few problems. 12 00:00:53.100 --> 00:00:56.039 I think that sounds fair What about you, Brendan? 13 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:04.260 I enjoyed even more of it than Todd in the in the highly enjoyed sector. 14 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:08.099 I would say I highly enjoyed the 1st 62 minutes. 15 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:10.739 Very precise. 16 00:01:11.340 --> 00:01:17.819 Well, there's a pronounced difference in my feelings after that point. 17 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:20.939 We will definitely get to that, I think. 18 00:01:21.299 --> 00:01:22.739 Adam. 19 00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:25.560 I, it's bonkers. 20 00:01:25.620 --> 00:01:28.560 Like, I enjoyed how ludicrous it was. 21 00:01:28.620 --> 00:01:38.519 I did get to what felt like the end of the episode and it was about 45 minutes and went, oh, I'll just pop off and make a cup of tea before I record my podcast. 22 00:01:38.579 --> 00:01:47.280 And when I pressed pause, I'm like, oh, there's 20 more minutes and they were 20 glorious minutes of surprises and fun. 23 00:01:47.340 --> 00:01:48.599 So I was like, oh, okay. 24 00:01:48.659 --> 00:01:49.620 This is good. 25 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:50.879 Extra doctor. 26 00:01:52.140 --> 00:01:54.180 What about you, Peter? 27 00:01:54.540 --> 00:02:07.739 I was brutally disappointed by this episode, but there were things which I enjoyed in it, particularly around Archie Punjabi, as Darani, who I just think was fantastic in every scene, even when she didn't have much. 28 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:12.180 And I continue to really love Verada as the companion. 29 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:13.860 Even when she isn't given very much. 30 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:16.319 She just absolutely shines on screen. 31 00:02:16.379 --> 00:02:22.560 And so any scene that had either of them or preferably both of them, I was on board with. brilliant And Simon. 32 00:02:22.800 --> 00:02:29.280 Well, I wasn't bitterly disappointed because to be honest, I wasn't expecting to think it was brilliant. 33 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:35.520 I mean, I'm on record and not be a particular fan of RDD and a particular fan of his finales either. 34 00:02:35.580 --> 00:02:39.419 And I, let's just say this very much lived down to my expectations, I'm afraid. 35 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:41.819 I mean, there's much to fun in it. 36 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:43.020 There's things to enjoy in it. 37 00:02:43.080 --> 00:02:49.620 You know, I love some of the cast is what PT was saying, but I do think that this one in particular, a big hot mess. 38 00:02:49.680 --> 00:02:50.639 I'm really sorry to say. 39 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:54.360 And James. 40 00:02:55.439 --> 00:03:02.879 Threesomes, why, Simon, what wasn't the hugest fan of this episode are the reasons that I love it. 41 00:03:02.879 --> 00:03:04.979 Because it is a bit. 42 00:03:05.460 --> 00:03:07.319 It's not perfect. 43 00:03:07.379 --> 00:03:09.780 But I enjoyed every minute of it. 44 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:12.479 He also loved me, James because I'm a big hot mess. 45 00:03:14.219 --> 00:03:21.419 I have to say that like the hot mess thing, it is a hot mess and I think it's a hot mess for kind of unavoidable production reasons. 46 00:03:21.479 --> 00:03:28.020 But in fact, the 1st 35 minutes until we kind of get rid of Omega all seems to me to be actually really rather straightforward. 47 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:31.439 And so let's talk about those first. 48 00:03:31.500 --> 00:03:35.159 We're halfway through the episode and the big problem is solved. 49 00:03:35.219 --> 00:03:39.599 We get an out of the way in less than the time that a normal episode would last. 50 00:03:39.659 --> 00:03:40.259 Yeah. 51 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:44.340 So let's talk about that. essentially, we get the gang back together. 52 00:03:44.400 --> 00:03:54.120 We get the Rani visiting, Mel and the Rani meet at last, and then obviously we all head off to the Bone Palace. 53 00:03:54.180 --> 00:03:59.400 So how do we feel that part of the episode worked? 54 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:02.520 Let's say, Brendan. 55 00:04:02.639 --> 00:04:05.939 I was pretty satisfied with that part. 56 00:04:06.060 --> 00:04:10.439 I think that Yasmin Finney continues to be underutilised. 57 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:13.020 But then again, what is a 16 year old's job at unit? 58 00:04:13.080 --> 00:04:13.919 You know? 59 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:17.220 She... 60 00:04:17.279 --> 00:04:18.540 Yeah, yeah. 61 00:04:18.600 --> 00:04:19.079 Right. 62 00:04:19.139 --> 00:04:19.560 Not quite. 63 00:04:19.680 --> 00:04:21.000 Better copying. 64 00:04:21.060 --> 00:04:23.040 She holds a mean clipboard, I think. 65 00:04:23.100 --> 00:04:25.379 If they thought about more, she could have predicted some weather. 66 00:04:28.379 --> 00:04:50.100 But, but, you know, they do they do make sure that they acknowledge the fact that her character is trans because that's why she wasn't there because Conrad's just like, you're not a real person, you know, and it makes the point we made about Conrad last week about how Conrad marginalises people who don't fit into his very narrow viewpoint. 67 00:04:50.160 --> 00:04:56.459 It restates the premise of last week without it having to be an info dump, which I really appreciate. 68 00:04:56.519 --> 00:05:00.779 And of course, what was the 1st story I saw on premiere? 69 00:05:00.839 --> 00:05:02.100 It was Time and the Rani. 70 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:12.600 So, look, there wasn't enough melon Rani scenes together, but at least there was a melon Rani scene and brilliantly acted it was too. 71 00:05:12.660 --> 00:05:18.600 I'm disappointed that there wasn't a scene of the Rani pretending. 72 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:23.040 Belinda. 73 00:05:23.100 --> 00:05:35.939 Like he's going, no, doctor, I'm totally your companion, Belinda. would have loved if they'd flipped the script and maybe had Mel dressing up as the Rani to fill Mrs. Blood. 74 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:38.220 I was going to say that, Peter. 75 00:05:38.279 --> 00:05:39.060 I was hoping that. 76 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:41.220 By the way, I had the leather. 77 00:05:41.339 --> 00:05:50.579 I had an eerie about why when Mel removes her helmet, she suddenly has a full head of curly hair because she's got really lank hair when she gets on the bike. 78 00:05:50.699 --> 00:05:54.959 It's because of Anita holding the door open or the regular time coming through. 79 00:05:55.019 --> 00:05:58.620 It was her actual hair from 1988. 80 00:05:58.740 --> 00:05:59.759 I think... 81 00:05:59.759 --> 00:06:02.879 I'm not Borg 9 being alive. 82 00:06:03.180 --> 00:06:08.819 I'm really sorry, but I'm not even convinced her hair from 1988 was actually her hair from 1988. 83 00:06:10.560 --> 00:06:20.220 I will give some praise to Bonnie because while I absolutely adore her in her original iteration as Mel and also in her comebacks in the 21st century. 84 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:28.800 The fact that she managed to channel so perfectly, time in the Rani mill, when she was calling the Rani, so utterly evil, or whatever it was you were saying. 85 00:06:28.860 --> 00:06:30.540 I absolutely abhorred. 86 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:31.439 Yes. 87 00:06:31.500 --> 00:06:32.040 Yes. 88 00:06:32.100 --> 00:06:32.939 So good. 89 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:33.540 Oh, dear. 90 00:06:33.540 --> 00:06:36.480 I just love Anita coming back in the use of this. 91 00:06:36.899 --> 00:06:46.560 A time hotel to get the gang back together and just all of those sequences and all that you said, like the showdowns with the Rani, Mrs. Flood, and everybody meeting together. 92 00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:51.360 I just really enjoyed it and, you know, the whole unit stuff against the the bone monsters. 93 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:53.819 I was just really engrossed by all of that. 94 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:59.399 I just thought it was so much fun and we were getting answers to things and I was getting, I was very satisfied. 95 00:06:59.519 --> 00:07:03.360 Look, I, I, I, this comes back to the hot mess thing. 96 00:07:03.420 --> 00:07:20.939 I mean, one of the things that I have a problem with most of the RTD finales and they seem to get exacerbated as time has gone past, is that they basically, and this one in particular is guilty of it, is that it's a whole lot of shouting exposition with a whole lot of CGI and relatively meaningless action sort of in between. 97 00:07:21.000 --> 00:07:24.600 So for me, it's just a whole lot of sort of sound and fury signifying nothing, I'm afraid. 98 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:30.060 It's sort of, it's just stuff happening without me actually feeling engaged with the stuff that's happening. 99 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:31.680 If I can put it in those terms. 100 00:07:31.740 --> 00:07:33.899 Oh, you've got to watch The Wheel of Time. 101 00:07:33.959 --> 00:07:34.560 That's every episode. 102 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:54.360 I think that this was a thing that we needed to do in the final episode of this era, because this era different from the other RTD era, because the doctor ends up in meshed in the family and friend groups of his companion in the RTD one era. 103 00:07:54.420 --> 00:07:56.399 Here he has his own one. 104 00:07:56.459 --> 00:08:00.000 And in fact, by becoming his companion, you become part of that group. 105 00:08:00.060 --> 00:08:01.560 And we see that with Ruby. 106 00:08:01.620 --> 00:08:03.060 We see it with a knee to here. 107 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:04.199 We see it with Mel. 108 00:08:04.259 --> 00:08:10.199 We see it with Kate, and the beautiful Colonel Ibrahim, and not to mention the links. 109 00:08:10.259 --> 00:08:12.839 And I love that. 110 00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:16.079 Like, I love that right from the giggle. 111 00:08:16.139 --> 00:08:20.759 It was one of the things that I really liked about the giggle was that new unit setup. 112 00:08:20.819 --> 00:08:27.360 And here, you know, just getting them all back together and it's like, we're now together, we can solve this problem together. 113 00:08:27.420 --> 00:08:30.540 And so it's not a thing that just the doctor does. 114 00:08:30.779 --> 00:08:32.700 The doctor doesn't go off on his own to solve the problem. 115 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:34.019 Ruby goes off. 116 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:41.279 The doctor goes off, and everyone else gets to do weird things with the thing and fire beams at the bone monsters. 117 00:08:41.340 --> 00:08:46.200 And I have to say that I think spectacle is fun and good. 118 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:53.519 It's television because it's vision and I think that was sort of particularly memorable and something that you would never see anywhere else. 119 00:08:53.580 --> 00:08:56.700 I think, giant boned dinosaurs attacking a skyscraper. 120 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:03.419 They need to just put some skin on them and then import them back to 1974. 121 00:09:03.600 --> 00:09:05.940 Can you imagine the brigadier with the big wheel? 122 00:09:07.620 --> 00:09:11.159 No, I can't, but I can imagine Sergeant Fenton. 123 00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:14.580 Love a big wheel. 124 00:09:14.639 --> 00:09:18.720 Having recently seen Seeds of Death, I thought she was controlling the temperature. 125 00:09:20.460 --> 00:09:24.240 It'll be 55 degrees centigrade again in no time at all. 126 00:09:25.379 --> 00:09:28.620 Five degrees to port, Mr. Benton. rapid. 127 00:09:30.539 --> 00:09:36.179 All right, so then we obviously go off and do the thing. 128 00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:38.279 And so let's talk about the Rani and Omika. 129 00:09:39.059 --> 00:09:40.980 It won't take very long. 130 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.980 No, mate. moment. 131 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.340 Probably less time than it took for him to swallow her. 132 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:49.379 He doesn't have a throat. 133 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:50.759 That's an improvement. 134 00:09:51.840 --> 00:09:53.340 Nothing. 135 00:09:53.519 --> 00:09:55.559 That hand comes out. 136 00:09:55.620 --> 00:09:56.580 It does have skin on it. 137 00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.340 So he's not entirely sort of feet a skeleton. 138 00:09:59.399 --> 00:10:06.899 And I do kind of like the fact that he's like a baby under skeleton because he's a time thing. you know, it's both ends of the human lifespan together at last. 139 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:15.539 But for me, the Rani always had this kind of supremacist thing going. 140 00:10:15.600 --> 00:10:17.159 She's a racist, right? 141 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:18.960 Lucertians don't matter to her. 142 00:10:19.019 --> 00:10:24.539 She has opinions about Lucertians, but she's not interested in them and she can kill them all and she doesn't mind too much about that. 143 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.820 And here it becomes really explicit. 144 00:10:26.879 --> 00:10:35.220 She's she has the chance to go for a new modern woke galafray with, you know, poppy and and the doctor and stuff. 145 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:39.720 But she goes, no, I'm going back to the old, you know, as old as possible. 146 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:45.659 And this is very much her comeuppance that that version of Gallifre wants to eat her alive. 147 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:55.440 Are we sure there just wasn't a joke on Russell's behalf where the Rani's experiment at the president's cat. 148 00:10:55.500 --> 00:10:57.779 And so in turn, omega et the rani. 149 00:10:58.139 --> 00:11:00.000 Oh, that's great. 150 00:11:00.059 --> 00:11:03.419 It does lead to the best line in the entire episode. 151 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:06.419 Oh, that's it for the 2 runnies. 152 00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:07.500 That from me. 153 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.600 It's a long game for a really old punchline. 154 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:16.620 Showing his age there, I think, in writing. 155 00:11:17.039 --> 00:11:21.779 That played better among this group, I think, possibly than the general audience. 156 00:11:21.899 --> 00:11:24.899 And we are, after all, the core demographic of this show. 157 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.240 Maybe, maybe we are. 158 00:11:27.419 --> 00:11:31.740 Ageing homes, maybe. more demographic. 159 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:41.639 Todd, were you expecting Ian Collier to walk through that portal into the Rani's laboratory? 160 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:43.080 I didn't know. 161 00:11:43.139 --> 00:11:43.799 I was in 2 minds. 162 00:11:43.860 --> 00:11:55.799 I thought, we're either going to go to take the way, you know, you've become a god, so you're going to be a big creature, and we're going to dispose of you quite quickly, which of course is what we did, and we wrapped all that up quite succinctly. 163 00:11:55.860 --> 00:12:06.840 Or we're going to go like the 3 doctors costume and that would then lead to another 25 minutes of having to defeat a humanoid villain and then it's still having the Rani there. 164 00:12:06.899 --> 00:12:12.120 And so obviously, you know, decisions were made and that's the way and that's the way we went, you know? 165 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:13.860 And I'm okay with it. 166 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.600 It's a little known fact that, that, um, Baby Feet is actually based on P.J. 167 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:19.019 Jefferson. 168 00:12:20.039 --> 00:12:21.480 Okay. 169 00:12:23.340 --> 00:12:31.259 It all sort of feels like, you know, we've decided we're going to do this and then, oh, no, no, we're not going to decide to do this. going to decide to do something else. 170 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:48.960 It's almost as if Rascal was writing, um, you know, in an airport lounge um, on his laptop and a closed board had saved properly and then kept writing where he thought he was up to when he got on the plane and was missing the kind of, the, the, the, the, where something actually meaningful happens. 171 00:12:49.019 --> 00:12:51.299 I don't know might take her. 172 00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:53.159 I thought it was unfortunate. 173 00:12:53.220 --> 00:12:59.460 I thought that there was a lot of exposition in that scene beforehand to just... 174 00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:06.600 Just to set up a scene where the monster comes and eats the Rani, which I didn't think needed a great deal of supporting explanation, to be honest. 175 00:13:06.720 --> 00:13:08.100 But there we are. 176 00:13:08.159 --> 00:13:09.720 I actually happen. 177 00:13:11.039 --> 00:13:13.679 Oh, you know what I... don't know. 178 00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:25.379 You know what I think happened is that Russell T. Davis has looked at the fury online about the timeless child, the whole retconning galafray thing and gone. 179 00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:27.960 Oh, what do they hate more than anything? 180 00:13:29.100 --> 00:13:31.440 reworking the time lord. 181 00:13:31.500 --> 00:13:33.539 Let's have a chat about how they're sterile. 182 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.019 That'll get Ian Levine in a twist. 183 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:40.620 Is something about looms? 184 00:13:41.700 --> 00:13:49.559 Do you know what my theory is about that is that that doesn't actually work in any context outside an abandoned series 3. 185 00:13:49.799 --> 00:13:59.700 And I think that there are little bits and pieces here and earlier in the season that are kind of leading up to something that's going to happen in series three. 186 00:13:59.759 --> 00:14:04.980 I think it's possible that Poppy, uh, the search for Poppy is part of series three. 187 00:14:05.039 --> 00:14:10.799 And I think the fact that the doctor says that he hasn't had Susan yet at some point. 188 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:13.980 But now he's sterile. 189 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.500 How does Susan fit in? 190 00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:18.120 And of course, she's completely absent. 191 00:14:18.179 --> 00:14:19.799 She disappears from this episode. 192 00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:24.720 And I think they're both things that were casualties of just not getting a series 3. 193 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:39.480 And it's the sort of thing that we saw at the end of series 2. of, you know, Russell's 1st era where all of this staff, all of the kind of other shoe that was going to drop, never happens because Billy decides that she's going to leave. 194 00:14:39.539 --> 00:14:42.240 And Anita also talks about the boss, you know? 195 00:14:42.299 --> 00:14:55.019 And so it does lead me to think that there are quite a few threads here in the 2nd half of the episode that, you know, we don't see Susan, as you've mentioned, and what is it with Poppy, there's all these threads that are left unanswered. 196 00:14:55.080 --> 00:15:01.679 I wouldn't be surprised if the search for Hoppy rather than being an entire series three, I wouldn't be surprised if that was going to be the Christmas special, for instance. 197 00:15:01.740 --> 00:15:02.879 That's possible too. 198 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:06.600 That feels like it could be right, but really, who knows? 199 00:15:06.659 --> 00:15:08.399 Because I'm not entirely, I hate to say it. 200 00:15:08.460 --> 00:15:10.019 I hate to bring this kind of thing up. 201 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.500 But I'm not entirely sure Russell has quite thought that far ahead. 202 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:17.820 I think he just likes to plant things that he might pick up later and do something with. 203 00:15:17.879 --> 00:15:21.840 And that's absolutely a thing that lots of shows do, I think, to a good effect. 204 00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.659 I mean, Claire Bloom. we know who she is yet? 205 00:15:24.779 --> 00:15:26.340 Doctor's mother. come on. 206 00:15:26.940 --> 00:15:29.039 Yes, sterile. 207 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.159 This is the thing, right? 208 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:48.360 It's so confusing But there's a throwaway line in the middle of that dialogue dump where they've talked about how there can't be any more time lords and the neogenetic explosions sterilise the 2 of them. 209 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:51.600 So they're not born sterile is the implication. 210 00:15:51.659 --> 00:15:59.519 All the other time lords are dead, but they survived and it made them sterile, even though he was the template for all of the time lords. 211 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:07.379 So surely if the genetic bomb rolled out, surely it shouldn't affect the doctor because he was a precursor to them, I don't know. 212 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:08.039 Didn't kill him. 213 00:16:08.100 --> 00:16:11.159 Maybe Susan's the child of Tikki Tikki Tata. 214 00:16:11.279 --> 00:16:12.419 Could be. 215 00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:15.840 Uh, Brandon? 216 00:16:15.899 --> 00:16:21.960 I actually had to go away and look up the genetic explosion because, you know, I've only watched the timeless children once. 217 00:16:22.019 --> 00:16:23.220 Good food. 218 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.059 Yeah, yeah. 219 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:30.840 The thing, the whole thing with Omega and the Rani that I, that kind of, like was my record scratch moment was. 220 00:16:30.899 --> 00:16:34.740 And I've gone and found the quote because someone was mean to me about it on Blue Sky. 221 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:39.419 Um, This is the doctor talking about Omega. 222 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:43.559 Some called him the original sin of the time lords. cast out from Gallifrey. 223 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:44.340 No, he wasn't. 224 00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:46.860 Legend says they bound him. 225 00:16:46.919 --> 00:16:49.980 No, it doesn't, and banished him because he is insane. 226 00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:51.960 He wasn't when he got lost. 227 00:16:52.019 --> 00:17:03.779 And it's just kind of this thing of, we've got Morbius and Razelon, both of whom have been banished and were tyrants, but let's go with Omega for some reason. 228 00:17:04.500 --> 00:17:12.539 Oh, but I do think the reason is that because he's, in some sense, the creator of the Time Lords, and because she wants to recreate the Time Lords. 229 00:17:12.660 --> 00:17:14.700 That's why she goes for him. 230 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:19.440 And I thought that it was kind of clear last week that that was where this was going to go. 231 00:17:19.619 --> 00:17:23.940 Yeah, he wasn't exiled and he wasn't mad before he... 232 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:26.039 But the doctor just makes shit up. 233 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:32.220 Also, because he, you know, she was gone. 234 00:17:32.279 --> 00:17:37.440 She had disappeared when there was the revelation that he was actually the progenitor of all of them. 235 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:44.579 She doesn't know that he was the 1st the 1st regenerating person in this universe. 236 00:17:45.180 --> 00:17:48.660 I really have nothing to say about any of that. 237 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:57.599 It's interesting, Brendan, that you talk about the timeless children because I think it's pretty clear that Chris Chipman gave himself a genetic explosion while writing that. 238 00:18:00.059 --> 00:18:03.119 I'm going to have to cut that. 239 00:18:03.359 --> 00:18:05.400 Did he need a wet ones? 240 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:08.400 All over the bottom of the desk. 241 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:19.740 Also, I will say that I'm I will say that I'm hearing whispers that maybe there was another version of the scene involving Jody, which I'm sure that we'll talk about which may have involved Carol Anne Ford. 242 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:22.140 So there are possibility threads. 243 00:18:22.200 --> 00:18:26.160 There's possibly threads which are left hanging there, which otherwise wouldn't have been. 244 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:27.359 Right, right. 245 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:33.359 The other big thing is that Mrs. Fudd has said, and the Rani, that his story ends in absolute terror. 246 00:18:33.420 --> 00:18:36.960 And I don't know if that actually happened, you know? 247 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:41.519 So and so that's another thread that could have, you know, been going on. 248 00:18:41.579 --> 00:18:44.099 That's just her foreshadowing, surely, no. 249 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:46.380 I'm going to intend in absolute terror. 250 00:18:46.440 --> 00:18:50.099 Yeah, it's like he's going to end in absolute terror because I'm behind everything. 251 00:18:51.599 --> 00:18:53.880 I'm a pantomime dame. 252 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:56.099 She is awesome. 253 00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:57.720 I'm so glad she survives. 254 00:18:57.779 --> 00:19:03.359 And there's that great moment where she just goes, yoi came out of here, you know, and the doctor even just says, 0 yeah, thanks. 255 00:19:03.420 --> 00:19:04.079 That's right. 256 00:19:04.380 --> 00:19:12.779 I'm still bitterly disappointed, though, that she doesn't use the time ring in a genesis of the Daleks kind of way. sort of rolling around on the floor. 257 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:24.480 Well, I'm really disappointed that we didn't get a mind battle scene between the doctor and the baby skeletonomia. on a black background. 258 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:26.880 We're thankful for small mercies, James. 259 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:28.920 Oh my god. 260 00:19:28.980 --> 00:19:30.660 You will face the dark side of my mind. 261 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.880 And it's Peter Davidson in a sparkling cloak. 262 00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:34.559 There we go. 263 00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:36.119 Change your proof. 264 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:36.720 Paycheque. 265 00:19:36.779 --> 00:19:39.059 And we get Peter Davidson is over the go. 266 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:44.400 You know what else this episode was missing is just a jet of smoke that was a singularity. 267 00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:47.700 I love that so much. the best. 268 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:53.640 Okay, also, who needs a bone dinosaur when you could have a massive gel guard terrorising an headquarter? 269 00:19:56.940 --> 00:20:03.900 Let's talk also about Ruby and Conrad, because they're confronting each other in the other room. 270 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:10.559 I actually thought this was a surprisingly downbeat kind of ending to that particular thread. 271 00:20:10.619 --> 00:20:15.779 Well, it could have been killed off and I do think that I actually think it worked very well. 272 00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:23.880 I thought that was actually very effective that she granted him that wish to be happy and and it wasn't, you know, he was going to die. 273 00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:28.140 I thought it was one of the few well-placed moments of the episode, actually. 274 00:20:28.200 --> 00:20:30.180 I'm going to agree with that as well. 275 00:20:30.240 --> 00:20:45.779 It was a moment that worked for me and I thought that, you know, people who Conrad is based on, you know, the Andrew Tates of this world are fundamentally unhappy people and, you know, just given a chance to be happy and to be happy, that's all they really, you know, should get. 276 00:20:45.839 --> 00:21:01.740 I have a theory that the Conrad character is based on not only the Andrew Tates of the world, but the very vocal, not my doctor, people, the people who've gone, Jodie Whitaker, not my doctor, you know, shitty guy one, not my doctor. 277 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:03.779 It's, you know, needs to be an old white man. 278 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:09.299 And what Russell is saying in this subtext is, I want you to be happy. 279 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:15.059 Like this show is still going and you still get it and I want you to be happy. 280 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:17.880 Like I'm not, I don't wish you malice as as a group. 281 00:21:18.119 --> 00:21:21.180 That sort of rings more true though, for the bloke. 282 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:24.539 I can't even remember the character's name from the 1st episode, the Robot Revolution. 283 00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:28.319 Whereas, oh, wasn't Conrad, wasn't Conrad Al? 284 00:21:28.380 --> 00:21:28.920 sorry, thank you. 285 00:21:28.980 --> 00:21:32.039 Wasn't Conrad more of a run of the-mill conspiracy theorist? 286 00:21:32.099 --> 00:21:38.880 Yeah, probably the right views, but not to the extent that what we've seen in this two-parter. 287 00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:41.460 I mean, look, it doesn't really matter that the characters repurposed for that. 288 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:41.940 That's fine. 289 00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.339 But it's just my observation about that. 290 00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:46.259 Yeah, no, that's in the text. 291 00:21:46.319 --> 00:21:56.700 I'm talking like a subtext that Russell's got going on on a 2nd level that this is what he's saying, is like, I want Doctor Who fans to be happy because most of them aren't. 292 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:04.980 But that scene also highlighted Millie Gibson and I think she's an unsung hero of this episode as well. 293 00:22:05.039 --> 00:22:08.099 I don't think there's any, it is quite subtext. 294 00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:11.759 I think it's seated in Lucky Day that he has an unhappy childhood. 295 00:22:11.819 --> 00:22:17.880 Like his mother beats him around the head and tells him off and like, you know, that's that's pretty terrible parenting. 296 00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:32.880 Something I love so much about that scene is something Russell actually has in dialogue in his 1st era, is how the doctor inadvertently turns all his companions into soldiers in his fight in the universe. 297 00:22:32.880 --> 00:22:47.400 And both Ruby and Belinda in this very much refuse to fight in the conventional sense and instead take on roles of protectors and benefactors. 298 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:52.859 And I think that's incredibly strong, like, as you say, taught Millie is amazing in that scene. 299 00:22:52.859 --> 00:23:06.359 And at no point, does she feel anything less than strong and powerful, but in a totally different way to say Rose and Martha with their great big guns and their Osterhagen keys in the stolen earth? 300 00:23:06.420 --> 00:23:09.240 Dude, you know, it's really funny, isn't it? 301 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.420 Because there is a great line where just before she beams out. 302 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:15.000 She says, can I punch him in the face? 303 00:23:15.059 --> 00:23:20.039 And Kate says, yes, but she doesn't do that at all. 304 00:23:20.099 --> 00:23:21.599 Like, that's not what she does. 305 00:23:21.779 --> 00:23:23.700 And I think that's pretty great. 306 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:24.599 That is pretty good. 307 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:26.339 Isn't he pretty? 308 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.339 That thing that she says about him. 309 00:23:29.460 --> 00:23:32.759 You can tip him sideways and serve olives in his dimples. 310 00:23:35.640 --> 00:23:49.380 I liked I liked that, and I did think it repaired something from Lucky Day where I thought Ruby was quite passive and a little bit of a victim throughout the episode, and this did actually give me some delayed gratification from that. 311 00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:50.819 Yeah, yeah. 312 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:52.440 All right. 313 00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:58.079 So that brings us to 35 minutes into this 70 minute episode. 314 00:23:58.140 --> 00:24:02.700 So it's very clear, I think, that we knew, didn't we? 315 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:06.000 I don't think it was generally known, but there was a reshoot. 316 00:24:06.059 --> 00:24:16.380 There was a version of this that doesn't end with a doctor's regeneration, and it's possible that it ends with the doctor and Belinda clubbing, having forgotten who Poppy is. 317 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:34.619 It looks like the scenes that have been shot are a scene in unit headquarters, which I wasn't sure last night was in it, but it has to be in the reshoot, I think, at least partly, and there's a scene in the Tartar, several scenes in the Tartar, and then there's the scene in Belinda's backyard. 318 00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:41.160 And you said, I think, Todd, that you liked that this half of it rather less than the previous half. 319 00:24:41.220 --> 00:24:41.640 Is that right? 320 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.339 Yeah, I guess so. 321 00:24:44.400 --> 00:25:04.319 I think because of the reshoots and that I think there was a storyline there that would have gone on and I just kind of felt like things were just tagged on and tagged on with, okay, she's going to have a child poppy now that looks like poppy from the space babies and and and was that really written for Ruby and so I just sort of, I just thought it was a bit of a mess. 322 00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:08.819 I mean, it was well acted, certainly, but I just, I don't know. 323 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:19.259 I mean, they obviously knew that they were going for this because all of those scenes with the doctor and Belinda and Belinda saying she had to be back for her child and by 730 were all shot, obviously, in all those episodes. 324 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:20.700 I don't think they were. 325 00:25:20.759 --> 00:25:22.440 You think they were already mounted? 326 00:25:22.500 --> 00:25:26.400 They're all in the TARDIS and they're all using costumes that they have to hand. 327 00:25:26.460 --> 00:25:32.880 And so I think that's a reshoot because I don't think the season ends that way at all. 328 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:39.480 And I think, you know, the big problem they have is we have to do a regeneration without any action. 329 00:25:40.380 --> 00:25:43.079 So we can't have, you know, the doctor. 330 00:25:43.140 --> 00:25:45.839 It's a little bit like the problem at the beginning of time of the Rani part one. 331 00:25:45.900 --> 00:25:47.579 How do we get the doctor to regenerate? 332 00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:48.180 Who knows? 333 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:49.500 We'll just fudge it. 334 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:53.460 But here you've got to do a regeneration. 335 00:25:53.519 --> 00:26:08.220 You've got to do the sort of a generation that we do in the modern series where it is about summing up what the doctor's for and the doctor has to, you know, Jody dies because an alien with an X in its name shoots her with a random beam of some kind, which kind of sums up the era. 336 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:16.380 But Russell kind of wants to make it about the doctor sacrificing himself for someone else, just like Terence, Dr. Dars. 337 00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:21.480 And Eccleston's doctor, frankly, but he has to do it just in dialogue. 338 00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:23.160 There's no peril, there's no nothing. 339 00:26:23.220 --> 00:26:24.539 We just have to talk about it. 340 00:26:24.599 --> 00:26:28.319 And I guess that's why I thought a little bit less satisfied. 341 00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:29.039 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 342 00:26:29.099 --> 00:26:29.819 Yeah. 343 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:32.759 I think there are there were 2 foreseeable. 344 00:26:32.819 --> 00:26:33.059 Yeah. 345 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.319 I suggest ways around that. 346 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:41.339 I mean, I'd have thought that the, the, the knowledge that they're going to get a 3rd season was always going to be in question. 347 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:54.960 So isn't there an option where you create the end of the 2nd series, which ends on some kind of cliffhanger, where you're not sure whether the doctor survived it, and you don't necessarily need to have him standing there with his arms up with all the light pouring out of him. 348 00:26:55.019 --> 00:26:59.039 You just go, well, we don't know where the, no, but you don't know whether this doctor has survived or not. 349 00:26:59.099 --> 00:27:03.599 So if the show comes back next year, 5 years, 10 years, whenever it is, you can have a new actor and it's fine. 350 00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:11.339 And the other option, I'm sorry to say, which is a very valid option is just to have them walking off into the sunset and in a survival kind of way. 351 00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:16.440 Actually, that is actually a valid option, and I think that they've missed a thing by not doing that. 352 00:27:16.500 --> 00:27:19.140 I think option one is the wrong option. 353 00:27:19.140 --> 00:27:27.720 And I think it's the one that they entertained at the end of Trial of a Time Lord episode 14 in the original script where you've got the doctor in the Vailiard fighting for their life. 354 00:27:27.779 --> 00:27:35.579 And I just think that that's, like, to watch something for 14 episodes and that's your ending, you don't get anything. 355 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:37.500 Yeah, I think that... 356 00:27:37.500 --> 00:27:38.940 I'm not saying about something exactly like that. 357 00:27:39.000 --> 00:27:46.740 There's a way of doing it where the whatever conflict, whatever story you have is resolved, but for whatever reason, we don't know what his fate is. 358 00:27:46.799 --> 00:27:47.759 There is a way of doing that. 359 00:27:47.819 --> 00:27:52.799 And I think, but the reason they squibbed on the time and the trouble version. paranoid that if it looked like the doctor was about to die. 360 00:27:52.859 --> 00:27:55.200 Well, that gives it to me, excuse to cancel the series. 361 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:57.059 I don't think that's the kind of peril we have now. 362 00:27:57.119 --> 00:27:58.859 No, that's... 363 00:27:58.920 --> 00:27:59.579 Yeah. 364 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:21.299 My personal belief is that he could not resist ending the show because it must have felt at that point that the show's not going forward anymore or it's going to be 4 or 5 years or whatever the decision is, but he couldn't resist ending the show that he started in 2005 with the same person that it opened with. 365 00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:26.819 Like the last face we see is the 1st face we see when he brings it back. 366 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.539 Like it's, it was a, if his hubris, if. 367 00:28:30.660 --> 00:28:36.119 I think we'll come back to that because once we talk about it, we've lost Brendan, I think. 368 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:42.960 I do want to talk about Jody's appearance in the show. 369 00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:53.339 And I think I think that that's something that we need because the doctor can't explain what he's doing to anyone else who isn't a timelord. 370 00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.579 And because the thing is such a time lord crap fiend. 371 00:28:56.640 --> 00:28:57.240 Do you know what I mean? 372 00:28:57.299 --> 00:29:00.900 We're going to fire regeneration energy into the vortex and blah, blah, blah. 373 00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:05.579 He needs to be able to explain that to someone who has a chance of understanding that, the flinks, maybe. 374 00:29:05.640 --> 00:29:07.259 But... 375 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:10.079 So you get Jody in. 376 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:21.420 And I think that scene is really good because I think Jody is a little bit more animated than she, you know, is it my favourite Jody Whittaker episode, possibly, but she's a little bit more animated. 377 00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:30.299 We get that thing about each doctor's reaction to the previous doctor and so you have Jody who's really closed down, who doesn't communicate with Yaz, doesn't communicate with her companions. 378 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:34.019 You know, she's in a Marty mood for no reason, but doesn't tell anyone why. 379 00:29:34.140 --> 00:29:41.579 And then you get this incredibly emotionally open Doctor Who openly says I love you to just everyone who walks past, really, at this point. 380 00:29:41.640 --> 00:29:45.720 So, so I liked that scene and it was kind of nice. 381 00:29:45.779 --> 00:29:51.119 So I always think that there's a generosity in the way that Russell has treated the chimney era, which I really approve of. 382 00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:59.160 I like that scene too, and I actually thought that it was really nice that she came back to do that and shows her her spirit towards the show. 383 00:29:59.220 --> 00:30:02.039 So, yeah, it was really it was really heartwarming. 384 00:30:02.099 --> 00:30:10.680 I quite liked it too because I thought it recalled for me when Matt Smith is regenerating and he becomes young again and drinks the custard and something like that. 385 00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:16.319 And then the fact that you get the Matt Smith from the path talking to the Capaldi doctor in the next episode. 386 00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:22.319 I think it's nice and I actually think it's it gives her an opportunity to have another go as well. 387 00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:23.700 I really liked that about it. 388 00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:24.480 Yeah. 389 00:30:24.539 --> 00:30:34.619 What I loved about that scene was the drawing that line back and saying, you know, well, I'm like this because all of you were emotionally stuffed. 390 00:30:35.339 --> 00:30:40.980 And then and then I go, oh, I should say that to Yaz, and then him going, you never do. 391 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:42.480 But she knows. 392 00:30:42.539 --> 00:30:45.240 It's, it's, it's, that was quite sweet. 393 00:30:45.299 --> 00:31:05.880 I, again, part of my crazy theory, uh, about the, the Billy Piper of it all is that the face that the doctor wears at the end is because finally the doctor is at a place that is on the other side of where they were at the end of the time war. 394 00:31:05.940 --> 00:31:14.700 This is the final repair and emotional growth and I can be this person who taught me how to be me again. way back when. 395 00:31:14.759 --> 00:31:16.140 That's because I'm sentimental. 396 00:31:16.559 --> 00:31:18.359 It's quite beautiful. 397 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:19.799 Adam quite... 398 00:31:19.859 --> 00:31:20.400 I like that. 399 00:31:20.400 --> 00:31:26.579 Glad that we can bring all of those levels too, because I think most people would be sitting there saying what the frack is Billy Piper doing there? 400 00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:42.779 Yeah, the Jody scene, I wept because I have always said that I felt there was more that she was not able to bring during her own tenure. 401 00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:54.900 And I think the text message I sent out to a few people was, Trust Russell T. Davies to give Jodie Whittaker's director more opportunity at character in 4 seconds than Chris Gibble did in 4 years. 402 00:31:54.900 --> 00:32:03.900 And it's exactly that moment that James mentioned where the 15th doctor tells her you never do. 403 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:06.720 And just the look on Jody's face. 404 00:32:06.779 --> 00:32:08.759 I'm just like, yes, you were always there. 405 00:32:09.359 --> 00:32:13.380 And just the show around you was not giving you that. 406 00:32:13.440 --> 00:32:16.559 And also a word on the grading in the show around her. 407 00:32:16.619 --> 00:32:20.940 I never realised she had 2 moles on her right cheek, but I can see them. 408 00:32:21.059 --> 00:32:31.380 That is no way to talk about Yaz. you That's what 4K does here, Brandon. 409 00:32:31.440 --> 00:32:32.039 Yes, yeah. 410 00:32:32.940 --> 00:32:48.539 I think the power of nostalgia is very strong, and I would agree with Simon that actually I was pleased to see Jody back, and as to what Brendan said there, you know, this was one of the few Jody scenes that didn't make me weep, so I was glad. 411 00:32:49.740 --> 00:32:52.920 So let's talk about the ending. 412 00:32:52.980 --> 00:33:01.740 I think there is a moment where Russell fakes it out because you see Shooty, you know, enveloped in the regeneration energy. 413 00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:06.119 And then there's a moment where his face disappears and you can't see anything. 414 00:33:06.180 --> 00:33:11.519 There's no morphing from one person to another in it, which we sometimes see. 415 00:33:11.579 --> 00:33:14.099 Sometimes the person's just completely occluded by the light. 416 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.920 But there's a moment there's a shot where there's no face there. 417 00:33:16.980 --> 00:33:24.660 And I was expecting because, you know, what I thought would probably happen, given that there's no casting news or anything like that, that Russell would just go to black. 418 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:30.660 And I think Russell's right to think that that's a bad ending or like that's kind of boring. 419 00:33:30.720 --> 00:33:40.920 So what he does, what I think is happening is this is the same instinct that gave us Catherine Tate in a wedding dress in the TARDIS or the Titanic crashing through the wall. 420 00:33:40.980 --> 00:33:48.720 And I also think it's the same instinct that gave us the fake out regeneration at the end of the stolen earth. 421 00:33:48.779 --> 00:33:50.400 Oh yeah, the hand. 422 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:52.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 423 00:33:52.259 --> 00:33:55.859 But I gather that it's not universally popular. 424 00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:06.299 My friend Matthew. said that he heard his wife give the most protracted WTF that he had ever heard from anyone in any context. 425 00:34:08.639 --> 00:34:10.380 It's interesting. 426 00:34:10.679 --> 00:34:14.699 It just says introducing Billy Piper, and not Billy Piper is the doctor. 427 00:34:14.760 --> 00:34:15.659 Without character. 428 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:19.679 Is that a get out clause, you know? 429 00:34:19.739 --> 00:34:20.940 Can they go one way or the other? 430 00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:21.539 I don't know. 431 00:34:21.599 --> 00:34:23.760 Well, we only see the top of her head. 432 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:27.179 Maybe she's by generating out of the back in today's 10 as well. 433 00:34:28.860 --> 00:34:32.219 Shitty guy was nicked out the back to go and find road. 434 00:34:33.659 --> 00:34:40.380 I can only congratulate Russell on his on his restraint for not having Billy say, what? 435 00:34:40.440 --> 00:34:41.460 What? 436 00:34:41.519 --> 00:34:41.940 Yes. 437 00:34:41.940 --> 00:34:42.420 What? 438 00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:47.699 No, he left that to us, I think. new teeth. 439 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:52.079 That'd be a bit on the nose, wouldn't it? 440 00:34:53.820 --> 00:34:55.440 Brandon. 441 00:34:55.619 --> 00:35:03.059 So I'm going to give Nathan a public apology because he got a big spray via text from me yesterday. 442 00:35:03.119 --> 00:35:05.159 I've calmed down a bit now. 443 00:35:05.880 --> 00:35:09.900 Look, I am always happy to see Billy Piper. 444 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:12.480 I love Billy Piper as an actor. 445 00:35:12.539 --> 00:35:20.159 She, um, she was the singer of my 1st CD single because we want to, but I built my own money. 446 00:35:20.219 --> 00:35:22.019 It's adorable. 447 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:24.179 I'm a slips. 448 00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.800 I'm as Aber. 449 00:35:29.039 --> 00:35:30.840 Mamma Mia. 450 00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:31.860 Like the 1st one. 451 00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:41.219 But after the initial, oh, yay, Billy's there wore off. 452 00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:45.659 I did I did get quite cross. 453 00:35:45.719 --> 00:36:02.579 And part of the reason I got quite cross was actually the same reaction I had as the at the end of Power of the Doctor, which was, okay, we have had a doctor, actor cast who has sort of broken a ceiling and broken a rule and proven that this part can be more diversely cast than what we have. 454 00:36:02.639 --> 00:36:06.360 And now we're going back to an actor we've featured before. 455 00:36:06.420 --> 00:36:12.599 And it just, it just, part of it felt a little insulting to shooty. 456 00:36:12.659 --> 00:36:20.039 But at the same time, as a fan, it's like, okay, but do I have any actual objection to Billy Piper playing the doctor? 457 00:36:20.099 --> 00:36:20.940 I was like, no, of course not. 458 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:21.900 She's a brilliant actress. 459 00:36:21.960 --> 00:36:28.980 And it's like, you can't say we can never have a white actor again, and you can't say we can never have a man again, and you can't say we can never have a woman again. 460 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.820 So... 461 00:36:29.820 --> 00:36:35.519 I kind of realised where a lot of my anger was coming from was I didn't have time to prepare for this regeneration. 462 00:36:35.579 --> 00:36:38.880 We usually have 3 to 6 months and I didn't have it. 463 00:36:38.940 --> 00:36:40.619 So all those emotions were coming up. 464 00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:42.599 That, though. 465 00:36:42.659 --> 00:36:47.820 That was like not knowing was amazing. when was the last time we didn't know. 466 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:49.320 Legopolis for me. 467 00:36:49.380 --> 00:36:50.639 Yeah, yeah. 468 00:36:51.059 --> 00:36:53.699 I knew Legopolis. was terrified. 469 00:36:54.659 --> 00:37:00.719 This is Russell finally achieving what she wanted to do at the end of series one. 470 00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:04.559 Yes, which is springing the regeneration as a surprise on us. 471 00:37:04.619 --> 00:37:05.340 It took him 20 years. 472 00:37:05.400 --> 00:37:06.960 Yeah, because he managed it. 473 00:37:07.079 --> 00:37:07.739 Yeah. 474 00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:15.059 Well, that wasn't that much of a surprise because we all all assumed that there was a very good chance that the episode was going to end like this, not with Billy Pike with the regeneration, right? 475 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:18.539 Oh, we did, but I don't think the audience in general did. 476 00:37:18.840 --> 00:37:19.380 Fair enough. 477 00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:19.679 Okay. 478 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:28.199 I wasn't really angry that Billy appears at the end because I felt basically for much of the last 2 years that they jumped the shark anyway. 479 00:37:28.260 --> 00:37:36.840 But I do feel that it's kind of gone the extra mile here because not because I don't like Villiers, everything Brendan said. 480 00:37:36.900 --> 00:37:38.340 There's nothing wrong with her as an actress. 481 00:37:38.400 --> 00:37:47.340 I just feel that regardless of what the rationale is here, so that if he knows that we're not getting another series, at least no time soon, what's this for? 482 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:57.420 I think it's kind of just crossing too much of a line as in that it's playing and making too much fun of and taking too much of the Mickey out of the concept of the show. 483 00:37:57.480 --> 00:38:00.480 So I just think it's, I just think it's a bit regrettable. 484 00:38:00.539 --> 00:38:09.719 I would say that, um, it feels a little bit like trolling the audience and whether that's a good thing or bad thing is up to the audience. 485 00:38:09.780 --> 00:38:14.699 What I will say is that I think a friend of mine was talking about this. 486 00:38:14.760 --> 00:38:29.099 Russell, given the opportunity to do something that he would view as predictable, or boring or overly dramatic, or given the opportunity to end on a gag, we'll choose the gag every time, and I think that's basically what this is. 487 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.199 Yeah and I think that's sad. 488 00:38:31.260 --> 00:38:39.539 I think that there was some talk, wasn't there, that he'd wanted like Jennifer Saunders or something to play the doctor for a short period during his 1st run. 489 00:38:39.599 --> 00:38:41.039 I want that. 490 00:38:41.099 --> 00:38:42.300 I want that still. 491 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:43.500 How lovely. 492 00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.119 Yeah, I think she'd be great. 493 00:38:45.179 --> 00:38:52.800 But I think, you know, now, for people who are kind of worried about regeneration and stuff like that, we've had the limit removed. 494 00:38:52.860 --> 00:39:03.960 And so, you know, the BBC has done a press release saying what, when, how, in what capacity, Billy's going to be on the show, we're not revealing yet. 495 00:39:04.019 --> 00:39:12.179 Um, but that will come and it quotes both, uh, I think it quotes both Billy and Russell. 496 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:14.340 So I'll put a link to that. 497 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:20.820 That was the BBC press release yesterday that did suggest that the story was going to continue, that she was excited to come back to Doctor Who. 498 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:25.860 Because initially my 1st thought was, oh, she'll say yes. an old mate. 499 00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.940 I'll just call her. 500 00:39:27.000 --> 00:39:32.460 She's not doing anything, but I think, you know, there may be some kind of plan in the works. 501 00:39:32.519 --> 00:39:42.059 I'd like to see a completely unknown actor take on the role as a doctor, not somebody who's been in a series or an actor that is well renowned. 502 00:39:42.119 --> 00:39:47.699 But, you know, she's there for a reason and when that happens. 503 00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:49.380 I am going to be there for it. 504 00:39:49.619 --> 00:40:03.300 What's absolutely clear is that Billy Piper is not the next incarnation of the doctor for any particular length of time because it seems clear that the show is not in production at the moment for the 1st time since 2003. 505 00:40:03.480 --> 00:40:05.039 It's not a going concern right now. 506 00:40:05.099 --> 00:40:09.719 And no actor, let alone Nathan just said earlier, you know, Billy's not doing anything. 507 00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:10.559 Billy's very busy. 508 00:40:10.619 --> 00:40:16.619 Yeah, very, very, very, a big star in the UK television scene. 509 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:23.219 And so the thought that she would kind of say, yes, I'll come and be the next doctor, but I'll start working on your series 3 years hence. 510 00:40:23.280 --> 00:40:24.780 It doesn't hold any water at all. 511 00:40:24.840 --> 00:40:31.019 So this is clearly in service of something which is going to happen, but it's not going to be a long-term solution. 512 00:40:31.079 --> 00:40:35.820 Yeah, possibly it's them going, well, we want to end on a bang. 513 00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:42.059 We want to do the best to try and set this up to maybe get a renewal at some point in the future. 514 00:40:42.360 --> 00:40:46.260 And ending it on that is a big headline getting thick. 515 00:40:46.380 --> 00:40:52.679 Yes, even if she's only in a couple of specials or just a Christmas special and then become someone else. 516 00:40:52.739 --> 00:40:55.739 It's a draw card to try and get people to watch. 517 00:40:55.800 --> 00:41:08.039 If the thought is that doing something like this assists the show being renewed in some format moving forward is, I think, a very odd and naive take from a television professional. 518 00:41:08.099 --> 00:41:10.260 Could I just follow that up with? 519 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:11.880 That's exactly what I think Russell's doing. 520 00:41:12.179 --> 00:41:15.719 I think Russell's like, oh, you want to cancel, doctor? 521 00:41:15.780 --> 00:41:18.659 Do you want to cancel national treasure, Billy Piper? 522 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:21.300 Exactly. 523 00:41:21.360 --> 00:41:24.300 He's what, 6263 now? 524 00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:26.820 He doesn't need Doctor Who. 525 00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:27.719 Yeah. 526 00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:29.460 Neither does Billy. 527 00:41:29.519 --> 00:41:30.179 You know? 528 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:31.380 That's the thing. 529 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:36.059 I think he is in a stage of life of having no F-bombs to give. 530 00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:38.579 So she's just like, I am going to do something crazy. 531 00:41:38.639 --> 00:41:41.219 And I do, I do agree with what people said earlier. 532 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:42.420 It is a stunt. 533 00:41:42.480 --> 00:42:05.280 Um, I've kind of gone through it emotionally in the last day also, and I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm on board with it being a stunt that may assist in the show, being commissioned again, or may just keep people talking about what the hell was that until in 10 years time, Pete McTie brings it back or, or Juno Dawson, you know. 534 00:42:05.340 --> 00:42:14.460 I think it's like, if it's done as a bargaining chip, it's very much she's someone that's done a lot of work with Bad Wolf, like they did. 535 00:42:14.519 --> 00:42:15.239 I hate Susie. 536 00:42:15.539 --> 00:42:18.960 She's currently in Wednesday on Netflix. 537 00:42:19.019 --> 00:42:22.559 So if they're pitching at Netflix at Amazon, at any of those companies. 538 00:42:22.619 --> 00:42:35.820 They're like, here is someone with a track record that Americans recognise that people around the world know who she is and she is the lead for all intents and purposes if you buy this show. 539 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:40.619 So it's, it's, I think it's a very much a planned thing. 540 00:42:40.679 --> 00:42:47.760 I mean, don't forget that Bad Wolf is now part owned by Sony, so they would want to see the show move forward. 541 00:42:47.820 --> 00:42:53.699 So it's, I feel like this is an, like a business decision more than anything else. 542 00:42:53.760 --> 00:43:03.960 I'm not entirely sure that that logic holds up given that if it was sold to, say, Netflix on the back of Billy Piper being your doctor and then she regenerates at the end of the 1st episode. 543 00:43:04.019 --> 00:43:08.579 I'm not sure they'd be very happy about that Well, no, that would be an ongoing discussion in the future. 544 00:43:10.380 --> 00:43:18.780 That's all we've got time for tonight, but before we go, I think some of us have things to plug. 545 00:43:18.900 --> 00:43:22.500 So let's start with Brendan. 546 00:43:22.619 --> 00:43:35.699 So this weekend, the three-handed game has just released its episode on the theme, This Green Unpleasant Land with the Tara King episode populated with Doctor Who guest stars called Wish You Were Here. 547 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:51.960 And I'd also like to just point out that much like the chase, this story contains a whole bundle of elements, we have a new regular played by a character that we saw just a few weeks ago, depending on how you watch Doctor Who. 548 00:43:52.019 --> 00:44:01.380 And um, and also the doctor get into a very unexpected. then slightly unconvincing fight with another time lord. 549 00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:03.420 Excellent. 550 00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:04.679 Adam. 551 00:44:04.739 --> 00:44:07.260 Yeah, Adam Richard has a theory. 552 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:09.300 My daily 10 minute Doctor Who podcast. 553 00:44:09.360 --> 00:44:10.440 Yes, daily. insane. 554 00:44:11.760 --> 00:44:16.920 All the rest of this week still talking about the finale and probably for the next 6 weeks. 555 00:44:16.980 --> 00:44:26.460 And I think I'll probably end up spending about 4 days recapping the 4 minute trailer of the... 556 00:44:27.719 --> 00:44:30.960 So I'm going to plug 500-year diary. 557 00:44:31.019 --> 00:44:43.679 We released our episode on Warriors of the Deep yesterday, and this Sunday we will be looking at the 2nd coming of Sill in Mind Warp. 558 00:44:43.739 --> 00:44:45.119 Oh, yeah, yuck. 559 00:44:45.179 --> 00:44:45.480 Sorry. 560 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:50.039 Should really have rethought that whole season title, actually. 561 00:44:52.920 --> 00:44:56.280 That pop was in his little handful of goo. 562 00:44:56.699 --> 00:44:58.320 It's green. 563 00:44:58.320 --> 00:44:59.820 Marshmillows indeed. 564 00:44:59.940 --> 00:45:03.119 So moving along quickly. 565 00:45:03.179 --> 00:45:14.940 We also have untitled Star Trek project, which is taking a break this week, but we will be back next week, God willing, for the Star Trek, the Next Generation episode tapestry. 566 00:45:15.000 --> 00:45:17.699 Yeah, which is pretty damn good. 567 00:45:17.760 --> 00:45:31.800 So you can keep up with us on flightthroughentirety.com on Blue Sky or at FTE podcast on Mastodon or God help you on X. And so all that remains is for me to say, until next time, there's only one sad thing. 568 00:45:31.860 --> 00:45:34.320 I want to know what happens next. 569 00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:37.380 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 570 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:38.519 Bye. 571 00:45:38.579 --> 00:45:39.659 Good night. 572 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:41.340 Good night. 573 00:45:41.400 --> 00:45:44.760 It's the end if only the moment had been prepared for. 574 00:45:47.820 --> 00:45:52.500 See you soon. 8 out of 10 for the 1st half of this episode and 6 to 6.5 for the rest.