WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-06-07 at 11:56:22 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.720 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flash cast with teeth and hands by stable diffusion. 2 00:00:09.779 --> 00:00:11.580 I'm Nathan. 3 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:12.720 I'm Todd. 4 00:00:12.779 --> 00:00:13.560 I'm Peter. 5 00:00:13.619 --> 00:00:14.580 I'm Simon. 6 00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:18.420 And they had the premiere without me. 7 00:00:20.579 --> 00:00:22.620 Thank you, Neres. 8 00:00:22.679 --> 00:00:24.059 And I'm Brendan. 9 00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:42.299 All right, so we have just watched, well, maybe a few hours ago, have just watched Wild Blue yonder, the 2nd of the 60th anniversary specials, and let's start by asking the question. 10 00:00:42.359 --> 00:00:46.140 What did we think of the pre-credits teaser? 11 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:48.719 And predictably, I'm going to start with you, Simon. 12 00:00:48.780 --> 00:00:49.799 Why? 13 00:00:49.859 --> 00:00:52.560 Because we'll start from the bottom and work up. 14 00:00:52.619 --> 00:01:02.579 Look, I mean, I mean, obviously the pre-credit sequence is setting something up, I assume, for next week's episode with Maavity, but look, I mean, it's light and fluffy. 15 00:01:02.640 --> 00:01:11.700 I was a bit, I mean, I really like this episode and I really think it demonstrates what the show can be and what Russell and everybody else is capable of doing. 16 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:16.140 It's just the fact that that 1st 5 or 10 minutes or 8 minutes or whatever it is. 17 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:20.219 It's just, it sets me down the wrong path and took me a while to recover from that. 18 00:01:20.280 --> 00:01:25.739 So, look, it's a bit of fluff and it's just loud and people shouting at each other in the sequence in the tree. 19 00:01:25.799 --> 00:01:26.459 But look, whatever. 20 00:01:26.519 --> 00:01:29.280 I just have to accept that I have to put up with these things to get to the good bits. 21 00:01:29.340 --> 00:01:40.439 I have to say that I was sort of painfully aware that Sir Isaac Newton didn't invent the word gravity at all, and it's just the Latin word for heaviness. anyway. 22 00:01:40.500 --> 00:01:41.519 It's a me problem. 23 00:01:41.579 --> 00:01:42.959 Todd. 24 00:01:43.079 --> 00:01:45.000 I thought it was a lot of fun. 25 00:01:45.060 --> 00:01:48.359 I did think the CGI out of the TARDIS was a bit crap. 26 00:01:48.420 --> 00:02:00.719 But, um, you know, I like the fact that you think that it's going to be a light and fluffy thing that we're going for and then everything just begins to slowly turn into something else. 27 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:02.700 So I actually like that misdirection. 28 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:04.200 Peter? 29 00:02:04.620 --> 00:02:13.080 That 1st sequence reminded me a little bit of modern day Simpsons, where they kind of have a skit all to themselves for the 1st 2 or 3 minutes and then get onto the proper story. 30 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:14.580 So I did enjoy that. 31 00:02:14.639 --> 00:02:16.259 I thought it was actually quite fun. 32 00:02:16.319 --> 00:02:20.819 It is unlike the story that follows it, but I quite liked that 90 degree turn. 33 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.580 Also, Simon, didn't we go to university with someone called Mavity? 34 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:25.680 We did indeed. 35 00:02:27.780 --> 00:02:33.659 I think it's just going to be a part of episode 3 really, isn't it? 36 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:36.360 The teaser is actually part of episode three. 37 00:02:36.419 --> 00:02:38.699 And we get Mavity seeded through the episode. 38 00:02:38.759 --> 00:02:42.180 The doctor remembers both words, but Donna only recognises the new one. 39 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:46.319 And we almost immediately say, Sir Isaac Newton's hot. 40 00:02:46.379 --> 00:02:59.219 And so something has happened to the timeline. to turn the nerdy and weedy and sickly Sir Isaac Newton into what we saw, the hottest man in It's a Sin. 41 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.500 Brendan, what did you think? 42 00:03:02.159 --> 00:03:06.960 Yeah, I thought it was a lovely 1st scene. 43 00:03:07.199 --> 00:03:12.479 I agree that it's probably plot wise going to play a role next week. 44 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:14.759 But I think in terms of tone. 45 00:03:14.819 --> 00:03:26.699 Um, it's important to have because very shortly after they land on the ship, the doctor and Donna are quite tense and even sort of have a go at each other. 46 00:03:26.759 --> 00:03:33.840 So having this bit at the beginning where they're both wanting to make the part about gravity and both saying, no, don't, don't do that. 47 00:03:33.900 --> 00:03:35.879 And then they say it at the same time. 48 00:03:35.939 --> 00:03:42.240 You know, it cements that even though Donna has blowed up the new TARDIS, the TARDIS console room. 49 00:03:42.300 --> 00:03:47.159 They're still best mates and they're still, you know, they want to be having fun. 50 00:03:47.219 --> 00:03:51.719 So of course, Russell T. Davies is like, I'm going to torture them. 51 00:03:51.780 --> 00:04:03.719 Um, Brendan, it's the 2nd go that Doctor Who's had, uh, in the new era at a new version of gravity, because in the Impossible Planet, the doctor mentioned gravity shmavity. 52 00:04:03.780 --> 00:04:06.599 So now we've got gravity, schmavity, mavity. 53 00:04:07.979 --> 00:04:10.139 Let's talk about the setting. 54 00:04:10.199 --> 00:04:16.379 Russell T. Davis apparently said that he was inspired by underworld part one. 55 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:21.839 Uh, and I was getting some planet of evil vibes. 56 00:04:21.899 --> 00:04:29.339 You know, we're way out in the sort of extremities of the universe where normal rules no longer apply. 57 00:04:29.399 --> 00:04:32.759 And that's true of all 3 of those episodes, I think. 58 00:04:32.819 --> 00:04:36.600 But I thought maybe this was the scariest version of that. 59 00:04:36.660 --> 00:04:37.139 Peter? 60 00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:40.139 Um, I saw that Russell mentioned underworld. 61 00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:48.240 It actually put me in mind of what I just talked about, the Impossible Planet, because Impossible Planet was on this kind of, you know, this planet out on the edge of a black hole. 62 00:04:48.300 --> 00:04:50.279 You get the impression it's the furthest they've ever gone. 63 00:04:50.339 --> 00:04:52.500 This may be the furthest they've ever gone further than that. 64 00:04:52.620 --> 00:04:54.060 But yeah, you're right. 65 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:55.079 The rules are suspended. 66 00:04:55.139 --> 00:05:06.240 So in the impossible planet, they actually faced the devil as far as, um, and here they face these 2 kind of beings who we've never come across, sure if they're unleashed into our universe will cause havoc. 67 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:07.259 And I like that. 68 00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:11.759 I like that feeling of danger and being removed from the TARDAS. 69 00:05:11.819 --> 00:05:17.579 That happened in the impossible planet, where it fell down into the crevasse, and we didn't know what happened to it, and here, the heads operate. 70 00:05:17.639 --> 00:05:19.139 Could throw back to the crotons. 71 00:05:19.199 --> 00:05:24.600 And so it's really unsettling and unnerving, and that's what I liked about this episode. 72 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:38.759 Yeah, the, The story I was most reminded of, at least in the 1st 10 minutes, was um, uh, Skezzo, the big finish audio, which is a 2 hander between Paul McGann and India Fisher. 73 00:05:38.819 --> 00:05:43.139 And of course, roughly around the time we get the golf cart, we know it's not that. 74 00:05:43.139 --> 00:05:46.259 And the golf cart's adorable. 75 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:53.339 But, you know, right down to the slight tension between the doctor and Donna when they start arguing about why the TARDIS has disappeared. 76 00:05:53.399 --> 00:06:03.600 And it also straight away gives us another indication that this is not just the tense doctor again because when Donna gets upset, he takes her hand. 77 00:06:03.660 --> 00:06:04.439 He kisses it. 78 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:06.720 He becomes very quiet and very soothing. 79 00:06:06.779 --> 00:06:10.139 And, you know, it's not all Dick Van Dyke and apples and pears. 80 00:06:10.199 --> 00:06:31.500 Um, And as for the as for the ship itself, it's a beautiful design, uh, the director of this episode, Tom Kingsley has put together a, um, Twitter thread of a bunch of behind the scenes, videos, and it's amazing how little of the set was actually built on how much of it is, um, CG for that long corridor. 81 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:40.620 And there's also a very amusing video of him as the giant version of the monster chasing after the golf cart in an animatic. 82 00:06:40.620 --> 00:06:43.379 And it's just him sort of running on all 4s. 83 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.660 Well, pretending to run on all 4s on a cushion. 84 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:50.639 But yes, I hardly recommend anyone. everyone check him out on Twitter. 85 00:06:50.759 --> 00:06:52.500 Yeah, I think it looked incredible. 86 00:06:52.560 --> 00:06:54.540 That ship was really something, wasn't it? 87 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:55.379 Just extraordinary. 88 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:55.920 Yeah. 89 00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:05.160 Yeah, I mean, I can sort of see that it's sort of 90% CGI, I hate to say, that you sort of, you sort of just get so used to, to the way that, that looks. 90 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:06.420 I'm not criticising it. 91 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:08.399 I mean, it's just it's just something that you can say. 92 00:07:08.459 --> 00:07:15.720 I actually was reminded of 2001's Discovery spacecraft in this very long backbone with kind of a big bubble at one end. 93 00:07:15.779 --> 00:07:17.339 You don't really get a clear shot of it. 94 00:07:17.399 --> 00:07:20.100 The clearest shot of it actually is when it's just about to start blowing up. 95 00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:25.259 But I was kind of reminded of the shape of 2001 discovery in that sequence happens. 96 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:46.860 Look, I really liked the, you know, once the episode actually gets going with, and you sort of discover, you sort of, it gradually unfolds what's happening, I love the sort of red herrings because when we 1st see the, well, the duplicate doctor and Donna for one of the better description of them, you're not entirely sure whether they're malevolent. 97 00:07:46.920 --> 00:07:48.959 You think that there might just be some weird thing. 98 00:07:49.019 --> 00:07:55.199 You think that they might even be part of the ship's, you know, computer trying to keep them company or something weird. 99 00:07:55.259 --> 00:07:58.740 I mean, I had all sorts of thoughts flowing through my head. 100 00:07:58.800 --> 00:08:01.500 Not sure how it was going to unfold. 101 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:06.000 And also the thing is, I didn't know that it was going to only just be the 2 of them for 95% of the episode. 102 00:08:06.060 --> 00:08:09.360 I didn't know whether that was known or whether that was a surprise for everybody. 103 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:11.040 Yeah, no one knew. 104 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:16.139 People were saying Matt Smith was going to be in it or, you know, the reanimated corpse of William. 105 00:08:16.199 --> 00:08:16.800 Alan Ford. 106 00:08:16.860 --> 00:08:19.800 Yeah, you know, the reanimated corpse of Caroline Ford. 107 00:08:19.860 --> 00:08:21.060 Like, yeah. 108 00:08:21.959 --> 00:08:33.659 The thing, though, with the with the with the bits where, you know, my arms are too long and and and where the jaw starts dropping to the floor is it's all kind of weird and strange without being revolting. 109 00:08:33.720 --> 00:08:36.480 I found that quite entrancing to watch. 110 00:08:36.659 --> 00:08:39.000 You were never grossed out by it. 111 00:08:39.059 --> 00:08:41.399 You were just kind of, you know, you couldn't take your eyes off the screen. 112 00:08:41.460 --> 00:08:51.720 I actually thought the big hands and stuff were actually kind of gross because they were very real and it kind of emphasised just the fleshiness of it. 113 00:08:51.779 --> 00:08:54.299 And I think it is... 114 00:08:54.360 --> 00:09:10.379 I think it's an episode that could only come into a world where we have those text to image AIs, you know, like Daly or stable diffusion that, you know, creates people with the wrong number of mouths or teeth or or, you know, that can't quite get people right. 115 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:21.240 And someone did post something suggesting that it owed something to the fury from the deep animation, which I'm secretly going to pretend is true. 116 00:09:21.659 --> 00:09:25.559 Yes, less underworld, more furious than the deep reanimation. 117 00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:26.759 Todd. 118 00:09:26.820 --> 00:09:37.200 I really liked the fact that you had that point of view of somebody watching them in that corridor to begin with before we got up to the duplicates. 119 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:47.820 And even when the duplicate started, I was going, is this sort of like, for a moment, it's going, is this sort of intercutting with a scene, perhaps, in the future or something like that and flashing back? 120 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:55.559 And then when the not Donna walked in, I sort of went, no, there's something, then the penny began to drop. 121 00:09:55.620 --> 00:10:06.779 And I just liked the, I liked the fact that it was just them, you know, and I certainly gave David an opportunity to play a lot, quieter moments and more still and menacing, which I thought was great. 122 00:10:06.840 --> 00:10:11.580 Um, and for his 14th doctor to do different reactions. 123 00:10:11.639 --> 00:10:15.960 I certainly felt that despite some moments that are very much him. 124 00:10:16.019 --> 00:10:24.299 There was a lot more range and a lot more stillness and um, in his performance than previously. 125 00:10:25.019 --> 00:10:35.580 Do we think this is actually a 14th doctor thing or do we think it's just the fact that it's the David Tennant playing the role, however many years later, and so inevitably the performance will evolve and change. 126 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.159 Like John Pert, we playing the 3rd doctor in the 5 doctors, for instance. 127 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:45.960 I think I think that, yeah, David is more experienced as an actor, but also, I think from an actor's point of view, He wouldn't want to come back and do it the same way. 128 00:10:46.019 --> 00:10:50.580 Like, you know, he did 48. episodes before. 129 00:10:50.639 --> 00:10:59.759 I think I think if he comes back, he'll be like, I want to do something new and I want to honour the fact that Matt, Peter, and Jody have all have all followed him. 130 00:10:59.820 --> 00:11:05.519 Brendan, my fanbrain wants to say 47 David Tennant episodes, but if you're adding the Starbeast, let's say 48. 131 00:11:06.539 --> 00:11:08.580 Oh, 46. 132 00:11:08.820 --> 00:11:09.059 Okay. 133 00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.059 I may be counting dreamland in that. 134 00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:13.620 That's just a number I have in my head. 135 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:14.519 But you're right. 136 00:11:14.580 --> 00:11:16.080 Dreamland is not a proper episode. 137 00:11:16.139 --> 00:11:18.179 I shall have to go look that up. 138 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:20.039 I shall have to go look that up. 139 00:11:20.100 --> 00:11:25.620 I think it was very clever, the fact they could only get, obviously, David and Catherine for 3 episodes. 140 00:11:25.620 --> 00:11:32.639 And so they maximised their potential by placing them front and centre, not having any distractions, just having them up against themselves. 141 00:11:32.639 --> 00:11:36.059 So we get more donner and doctor for our buck. 142 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:48.659 But also, I mean, going back to the quality of what it was like and what the episode follows, I think there's been a lot of talk of its nearest antecedent being midnight. and that's true. 143 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:51.179 But I like the fact that Russell flips it on his heads. 144 00:11:51.240 --> 00:11:58.139 Midnight was all about what you didn't see and that was unnerving, whereas here he flips it and makes it all the body horror of what you do see. 145 00:11:58.200 --> 00:12:07.259 And so you have, you know, David Tennant doing the spider walking from X. You have sort of the big crushed limbs together when they're huge. 146 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:10.379 You have, obviously, the jaw dropping and all of that. 147 00:12:10.440 --> 00:12:17.700 And it was all about making visuals scary without a lot of, without a lot of verbiage to go with it, which I really liked. 148 00:12:18.000 --> 00:12:31.259 It's all that dialogue too, between the doctor and the not daughter and the opposite, like, you know, where they're actually delving deeper into what's going on in over the last 15 years. 149 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:37.679 And so we're getting answers, but they're not necessarily getting the answers between each other. 150 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:45.059 I love the fact that I think that Donna actually lies at the end when she says that she doesn't remember because I think it's obvious that she does. 151 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:55.919 And, um, you know, I think it was great that she was concerned about her family and wanting to get back and, and I know I'm jumping ahead here, but the moment at the end where the spaceship is footing and she's there. 152 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:58.259 The absolute look on her face, the horror. 153 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.720 I mean, he, he is, and I thought, 0 my god, they're going to actually, you know, kill her for a moment. 154 00:13:03.720 --> 00:13:12.059 And I was on the edge of my seat, but also in terms of that character, realising that, you know, she can let the doctor go, she needs to go back to her family because this is too much. 155 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:40.080 And I really like, one of the things I liked about this episode is sort of the setting up of that, the doctor talking about, The flux and the timeless child, I think, you know, Russell paying dues to that and giving that a bit of weight and giving us, not necessarily answers, but, you know, I thought we never got the answers we needed, but here he is putting things in that can carry forward. 156 00:13:40.139 --> 00:13:47.639 We never found out what the flux did, and it was very much a case of half the universe wouldn't want us to mourn. 157 00:13:47.700 --> 00:13:50.340 Let's go off and have a holiday on a sentient beach. 158 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.059 You know, like, and Russell makes it land. 159 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:58.919 He says, all right, half the universe was destroyed and he makes the doctor feel something about it. 160 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:02.340 And that was really quite weightless, I think, at the end of flux. 161 00:14:02.399 --> 00:14:03.960 We really never got that payoff. 162 00:14:04.019 --> 00:14:05.580 And he didn't have to do that. 163 00:14:05.639 --> 00:14:08.700 And I'm kind of glad that he did. 164 00:14:08.759 --> 00:14:14.519 Isn't it funny how the half universe that gets destroyed, never is Earth's half and always is Trarkan's half. 165 00:14:14.580 --> 00:14:16.259 Yeah, that's good though. 166 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:21.840 The 25% of the console of the TARNIS that gets jettisoned never includes the console room either. 167 00:14:21.899 --> 00:14:25.860 So, you know, but I actually think that he's actually making it. 168 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:32.759 It is all of those things, but I think also, most importantly, he's making that little statement saying, yes, that all counts. 169 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.519 Yes, I'm not I'm not going to try and pretend that it didn't happen. 170 00:14:35.580 --> 00:14:38.879 Yes, I'm accepting it and we're going to own it and we're going to move on. 171 00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:41.039 I think that's what that's about as well. 172 00:14:41.100 --> 00:14:51.240 Russell would never do anything as inelegant as trying to erase that from Doctor Who's history, but, you know, he's got the he's got the ability to give it a bit more weight, which is really all we need. 173 00:14:51.299 --> 00:14:54.539 Yeah, well, no, not necessarily a razor, but just forget about it. 174 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:57.600 Like it would be so easy just to sort of, we'll never, we'll just never talk about it. 175 00:14:57.659 --> 00:14:58.200 You know what I mean? 176 00:14:58.259 --> 00:14:59.039 Yeah. 177 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:03.000 It's why I think Doctor Who can ever be rebooted because we were all there. 178 00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:06.059 We saw all the previous episodes, they happened. 179 00:15:06.059 --> 00:15:08.159 You know, we all watched Flux. 180 00:15:08.220 --> 00:15:16.019 It happened in our living room and having the doctor kind of deny that or just never mention it again is weird, I think, in the modern era. 181 00:15:16.139 --> 00:15:22.740 It's kind of like, I have no problem with Doctor Who never mentioning dimensions in time, right? 182 00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:24.539 I have no problem with them never mentioning it. 183 00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:26.100 I do. 184 00:15:26.100 --> 00:15:28.320 But here's the thing. 185 00:15:28.379 --> 00:15:39.480 There's a new adventure that basically says it was a horrible nightmare the doctor had, you know, after he had a dinner that disagreed with him and I kind of look at that and I go, that's mean spirited. 186 00:15:39.539 --> 00:15:43.259 Like it's mean-spirited to the people who love dimensions in time. 187 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:53.519 And it's, it's also just kind of like, if, if you want to sort of say it didn't happen, just don't, yeah, just don't talk about it. 188 00:15:53.580 --> 00:16:00.000 But to say, no, it definitely happened and here's an emotional payoff from it. 189 00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:02.039 I found that highly effective. 190 00:16:02.700 --> 00:16:15.899 And especially something I loved about it was when Tennant walks out of that, the doctor has to take a moment to get the rage and the sorrow out in some way. 191 00:16:15.960 --> 00:16:22.200 And we've seen Tennant do it before in the end of time, but I think it's so much more effective here because there are no words. 192 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.100 It is a guttural sobbing. 193 00:16:26.220 --> 00:16:32.580 Anger instead of a speech about how he could, he could have done more. 194 00:16:32.639 --> 00:16:34.019 He could have done this. 195 00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:38.879 It's it's um, it's visceral and emotional, which I think is very appropriate for this episode. 196 00:16:39.059 --> 00:16:55.620 I just thought, you know, the episode manages to be about something more than just sort of scary monsters in a spaceship, and it is about the doctor and Donna trying to have conversations with each other about real things and failing because they're speaking to the duplicate all the time. 197 00:16:55.679 --> 00:17:09.180 And as you said, Todd, there's that thing at the end where they sort of have that conversation, but Donna can't bring herself to admit that she knows what went on for the doctor during those 15 years. 198 00:17:09.240 --> 00:17:16.980 Um, and then the TARDIS lands and she says to him, you timed that in order to avoid an awkward conversation. 199 00:17:17.039 --> 00:17:23.819 And so it's all about them getting together after all of this time, but not managing to properly speak to one another. 200 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.279 And I thought that that was really good and really interesting. 201 00:17:26.339 --> 00:17:33.660 And again, it's refreshing to have an episode that's about something more than just the space problem that we're encountering this week. 202 00:17:34.140 --> 00:17:39.900 It, it gives a gravity to the situation, Avatar. 203 00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:45.000 Yes, the natity to the situation and and to this story. 204 00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:52.259 And like, I mean, it would have been so easy to say we're going to have 3 specials and they're all just going to be whizz, bang, you know, sort of like dalek, cybermen. 205 00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:52.980 God knows what. 206 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:57.420 And I think this is, this is why I love this episode so much. 207 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:16.319 And I loved last week as well, but it just is, I was just, it was just compelling and it was, there was an interiority to it that I just really liked and, yeah, it was the right, I think it was the right direction to go because obviously next week it's going to be like, well, we'll see. 208 00:18:16.380 --> 00:18:24.720 It's just such a lovely idea, having the doctor and Donna by themselves facing another doctor and Donna, while they can't face themselves or each other. 209 00:18:24.839 --> 00:18:27.000 It's just, you know, welcome back Russell. 210 00:18:27.779 --> 00:18:30.900 So let's talk about next week. 211 00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:42.779 I think we are in for a sort of big dumb spectacle of the kind that I really like, but I'm sort of happy that it's not going to involve Daleks and Cybermen unless we've all been horribly duped. 212 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:47.039 How did you feel about the cliffhanger and that scene? 213 00:18:47.519 --> 00:18:56.819 I really love the fact that Donna knows her family so well to know that the one waiting for her will be willf. 214 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:00.779 You know, and she's the thing is, she's fine with that. 215 00:19:00.839 --> 00:19:12.359 Like she doesn't say, oh, you know, Rose will come back once every so often and that's fine, but my grandad, he's going to be there with a flask and, you know, and there he is and that's beautiful. 216 00:19:12.539 --> 00:19:14.880 As a cliffhanger, you know. 217 00:19:14.940 --> 00:19:29.519 We've had a story, as we've been saying, which is about communication and failed communication, but also, there's several times where the doctor and Donna put aside their fear or their anger to solve the situation and to support each other. 218 00:19:29.519 --> 00:19:51.720 And they get back to earth and people are randomly attacking each other and there just seems to be this, this, um, rage virus, I suppose, to use the term from 28 days later, um, going around and so even the cliffhanger juxtaposes what happens in the episode. 219 00:19:51.779 --> 00:19:55.559 And also we get Bernard Crittens. 220 00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.140 The late great Bernard Crittens. 221 00:19:58.200 --> 00:20:01.140 Um, It's, it's, it's perfectly judged. 222 00:20:01.500 --> 00:20:05.160 I think that this is the only scene that we get with him. 223 00:20:05.220 --> 00:20:06.180 Am I right? 224 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:07.140 Yes. 225 00:20:07.140 --> 00:20:09.660 I think Russell's confirmed that today. 226 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:15.359 They did write more for him, but after they filmed this, there was a mutual agreement that that was enough. 227 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:17.220 He wasn't too much. 228 00:20:17.279 --> 00:20:18.660 But then, yeah. 229 00:20:18.720 --> 00:20:28.859 But apparently Bernard came to the full read through and everyone loved him and he was entertaining people and what have you, which is lovely to hear. 230 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:32.039 And the episode was dedicated to his memory as well, of course. 231 00:20:33.059 --> 00:20:35.099 Simon, what did you think? 232 00:20:35.579 --> 00:20:48.480 I'm optimistic about next week, um, because I, even though, yes, it's going to be, it's going to be that kind of, you know, big spectacle and lots of things going to happen, but I'm looking forward to hoping that we're going to have a quite a surreal episode. 233 00:20:48.539 --> 00:21:04.799 I mean, I don't think this is a spoilery thing to say because it sort of was on clips and stuff, but there's a sort of a bit, I think it's a fan made video or something of Neil Patrick Harris and David Tennant sort of dancing together in the middle of all of this kind of mayhem and then going off. 234 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:12.900 It's that's the sort of thing that I think can be very odd and very effective and I'll be fascinated to see how it unfolds and I'm very hopeful. 235 00:21:13.019 --> 00:21:27.779 Do you remember before we all saw the celestial toy maker how intriguing the kind of the concept was, you know, the how surreal and strange we all thought it was and how great we thought it would have been? 236 00:21:27.839 --> 00:21:35.460 But that's also because Ian Levine was telling us that it was one of the best stories ever, remember. that's true. that's right And so was Jeremy about so many celebration. 237 00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:35.880 Yeah. 238 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:45.779 It's not, it's just her, it's just unfortunately realised because it's all too laboured in a studio where you can only, you know, cut twice in each episode. 239 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.380 I mean, look, there are obviously many other problems with it as well. 240 00:21:49.440 --> 00:22:01.920 But I think it is the kind of thing that I'm reading, you know, the one paragraph that was available in the 20th anniversary magazine special or the doctor, the making of Doctor Who, and being quite captivated by it, by the sound of it. 241 00:22:01.980 --> 00:22:02.220 Yeah. 242 00:22:02.279 --> 00:22:03.720 I'm sure Russell had the same experience. 243 00:22:03.779 --> 00:22:09.420 I think we can say with some certainty, the next week's episode is going to be better than the Celestial Toy Maker. 244 00:22:11.759 --> 00:22:17.039 Because I think while the ideas at the heart of Celestial Toy Maker are quite fun. 245 00:22:17.099 --> 00:22:23.579 The execution is no fun at all, whereas Russell is all about taking ideas like that and putting interesting spins on them. 246 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:25.319 So I think it's going to be a very good episode. 247 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:29.880 I want I want the trilogic game back in it, please, for next week. 248 00:22:30.000 --> 00:22:31.799 There'll have to be a reference to it. 249 00:22:31.859 --> 00:22:33.000 Surely there has to be a reference to it. 250 00:22:33.059 --> 00:22:35.759 I want to return for the feared dodo doctor. 251 00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:37.980 Oh my god, though. 252 00:22:41.039 --> 00:22:53.099 Seeing Bernard. obviously brought a lump to my throat and it was just a lovely moment and with everything cliffhanger with the cliffhanger there. 253 00:22:53.160 --> 00:23:01.019 I am really looking forward to what they're going to do next week and seeing how David plays off Neil Patrick Harris. 254 00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.119 I think that's going to be really intriguing. 255 00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:07.500 And I'm looking forward to seeing the head of unit back. 256 00:23:07.619 --> 00:23:09.480 Oh, yeah, of course. 257 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:10.559 Kate Stewart. 258 00:23:10.619 --> 00:23:12.420 We're still trying to make Kate Stewart happen. 259 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:16.200 Yes, I'm still trying to make her happen, right? 260 00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:20.640 I am actually looking forward to seeing her, seeing what she, you know, yeah. 261 00:23:20.700 --> 00:23:24.539 I can anticipate she'll have a furrowed brow and no emotion. 262 00:23:24.599 --> 00:23:25.019 How about that? 263 00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.579 I'm hoping we get Shirley and Bingham back. 264 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:30.240 Oh, yes. 265 00:23:30.299 --> 00:23:30.960 Yeah, me too. 266 00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:31.859 We do. 267 00:23:31.859 --> 00:23:33.000 We do. 268 00:23:33.059 --> 00:23:33.420 Oh, good. 269 00:23:33.539 --> 00:23:40.079 Yeah, you can see her in that scene where the doctor is on top of that building and the toy maker is pointing the gun at him. 270 00:23:40.140 --> 00:23:41.400 You can see her in the background. 271 00:23:41.460 --> 00:23:41.940 It's great. 272 00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:42.900 Excellent. 273 00:23:42.960 --> 00:23:43.259 Good. 274 00:23:43.980 --> 00:23:53.640 I thought that Mavity may have come into play with the fake donor in the TARDIS, right, with her slipping up there, but it didn't. 275 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:57.240 And I actually predict that it may not actually come into play next week. 276 00:23:57.299 --> 00:23:59.579 It might be a thing that goes on longer. 277 00:23:59.640 --> 00:24:00.359 Okay. 278 00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:03.779 Which would be quite interesting. 279 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:05.400 Yes. 280 00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:08.099 The mention of the boss in the Starbeast. 281 00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:14.460 Russell has already confirmed that that's a season 14, possibly season 15 thing. 282 00:24:14.519 --> 00:24:15.240 Right. 283 00:24:15.660 --> 00:24:24.539 We haven't really talked about the self-destruct mechanism of that spaceship in, let's just assume it was running at normal speed rather than the hyper slow down speed. 284 00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:27.599 But basically you set the self-destruct of the spacecraft. 285 00:24:27.660 --> 00:24:32.220 And then this tiny robot walks along this very, very long corridor to then press a button and then blow the ship up. 286 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:34.019 I don't know why you don't just press the button yourself. 287 00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:35.759 It's uh, it's interesting. 288 00:24:35.819 --> 00:24:39.539 Well, she, it's very self-out the air, but very effective. 289 00:24:39.539 --> 00:24:41.099 It wasn't available to press the button, I think. 290 00:24:41.099 --> 00:24:44.099 No, but you're operating self-destruct under normal circumstances. 291 00:24:44.160 --> 00:24:48.539 Yes, again, I suppose what are the normal circumstances that you self-destruct this ship? 292 00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.000 All right. 293 00:24:51.059 --> 00:24:53.640 Well, unless anyone has anything more to add. 294 00:24:53.700 --> 00:24:55.019 I think we might wind up. 295 00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.660 I'm going to plug some things. 296 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:00.779 The flight through entirety series 9 coverage. 297 00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:04.500 Kind of finishes this Sunday with the retrospective. 298 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:12.599 We have 2 episodes of Startling Barbara Bain. already released covering the 1st 2 episodes of Space 1999. 299 00:25:13.079 --> 00:25:14.640 She's extra startled. 300 00:25:14.700 --> 00:25:15.900 She's super startled. 301 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:22.440 We have maximum power powering its way through series 3 of Blake 7. 302 00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:25.140 No one's gonna correct me? 303 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:25.799 Numbers? 304 00:25:25.859 --> 00:25:26.700 Numbers? 305 00:25:26.700 --> 00:25:29.940 I've given up Nathan. 306 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:32.339 And I never cared. 307 00:25:32.460 --> 00:25:40.740 And we have untitled Star Trek Project, which will this week, God willing, be covering Star Trek for the voyage home. 308 00:25:40.859 --> 00:25:43.619 Oh, you deserve a treat. 309 00:25:43.799 --> 00:25:45.539 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 310 00:25:45.599 --> 00:25:47.400 We've had a rough run, I tell you what. 311 00:25:47.460 --> 00:25:48.480 I'm quite fond of that. 312 00:25:48.539 --> 00:25:49.500 It's wonderful. 313 00:25:49.559 --> 00:25:53.759 It's really great I confess I haven't seen it this century, so I might have a different view of it if I watched it again. 314 00:25:53.819 --> 00:25:55.440 It's very period. 315 00:25:55.500 --> 00:26:00.359 Yeah, yeah, just say that. 80s is period drama. 316 00:26:00.420 --> 00:26:01.200 That's right. 317 00:26:01.259 --> 00:26:02.099 All right. 318 00:26:02.160 --> 00:26:08.640 So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember that people being hot is always a good thing. 319 00:26:08.700 --> 00:26:11.220 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 320 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:12.539 See you soon. 321 00:26:12.599 --> 00:26:13.140 Good night. 322 00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:13.799 Good night.