WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-02 at 15:30:57 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.240 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd great and 2 00:00:03.240 --> 00:00:07.440 bountiful Human Empire, the only Doctor Who flash cast whose 6 3 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.580 word story is some nerds had too many opinions. 4 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:15.779 Actually, maybe not the only Doctor Who flash cast. 5 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:18.059 I'm Nathan. 6 00:00:18.120 --> 00:00:20.640 I'm Brendan, and I'm Todd. 7 00:00:20.699 --> 00:00:25.800 Well, we are here to talk about the story and the engine, the 2nd 8 00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:30.000 Doctor Who episode to have an ampersand in the title. 9 00:00:30.120 --> 00:00:34.439 It's written by Inua Ellams, who also plays the stall holder. 10 00:00:34.500 --> 00:00:38.820 Uh, it turns out, uh, and directed by McCallum McPherson. 11 00:00:38.939 --> 00:00:44.340 And I think that we'll just start by saying what we thought of the 12 00:00:44.340 --> 00:00:46.140 episode generally. 13 00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:51.060 Todd, what sort of experience did you have watching this episode? 14 00:00:51.539 --> 00:00:53.579 Well, Nathan. 15 00:00:53.880 --> 00:00:58.799 I wanted to like it more than I did as I watched it the 1st time. 16 00:00:58.859 --> 00:01:03.179 I found it very talky, and I was missing things, and I could see 17 00:01:03.179 --> 00:01:06.599 all the components, and, and but I kept looking at my watch, which 18 00:01:06.599 --> 00:01:12.120 reminded me of Chris Chibnall episodes, and I sort of, I sort of 19 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:13.620 left myself muddled at the end. 20 00:01:13.680 --> 00:01:15.959 It's not a four, it could be an eight. 21 00:01:16.019 --> 00:01:17.519 You know, it's probably a 6. 22 00:01:17.579 --> 00:01:20.700 So I wanted to give it some breathing space. 23 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:22.560 So I did watch it again last night. 24 00:01:22.560 --> 00:01:26.219 And I'm so delighted to report that I did have a ton experience 25 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:30.599 where I liked it a lot more the 2nd time through and I got a lot 26 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:33.599 of the explanations, which I missed, which just made it much more 27 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:34.319 cohesive. 28 00:01:34.379 --> 00:01:36.060 So I actually thought it was very good. 29 00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:37.019 Brendan? 30 00:01:37.079 --> 00:01:41.640 I wanted to watch it again. before recording, but I haven't had 31 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:42.000 time. 32 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:46.079 But I've sort of had the experience of just thinking about it more 33 00:01:46.079 --> 00:01:50.760 and just thinking about it more has made me enjoy it even more. 34 00:01:50.819 --> 00:01:53.879 And even my 1st impression of it was, well, this is definitely a 7 35 00:01:53.879 --> 00:01:54.420 out of 10. 36 00:01:54.420 --> 00:01:58.079 And I've said this on socials elsewhere, it gave me the Warriors 37 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:00.480 Gate feeling of the 1st time I watched Warriors Gate. 38 00:02:00.540 --> 00:02:02.879 I came away from it going, I loved that. 39 00:02:03.000 --> 00:02:04.260 I don't know what was going on. 40 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:09.539 This I actually had a better idea of what was going on when I 41 00:02:09.539 --> 00:02:12.419 finished watching it and just the 2 days I've had since then just 42 00:02:12.419 --> 00:02:14.460 sitting cogitating it. 43 00:02:14.520 --> 00:02:18.060 It's like, it's not only something beautiful, which is what, which 44 00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:19.680 is what I felt as the credits rolled. 45 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:22.979 I went, no, no, no, I really like this story about stories and 46 00:02:22.979 --> 00:02:26.879 reading up on Enua Ellams and finding out his background as a 47 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:27.419 playwright. 48 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:32.159 I understand why the episode is written and directed the way it 49 00:02:32.159 --> 00:02:32.400 is. 50 00:02:32.460 --> 00:02:35.699 It's like a stage play and that's obviously something I'm very 51 00:02:35.699 --> 00:02:36.180 fond of. 52 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:40.319 He's a poet as well, which is sort of interesting. 53 00:02:40.379 --> 00:02:42.300 I had a similar experience. 54 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:44.939 I actually went out to dinner on Saturday night and came home 55 00:02:44.939 --> 00:02:52.020 having enjoyed the dinner and I watched it in bed on my phone. 56 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:55.800 And I'm kind of going, I'm not following this, but maybe I'm kind 57 00:02:55.800 --> 00:02:58.020 of not sort of a bit under the weather or whatever. 58 00:02:58.080 --> 00:03:01.139 Like I thought it was stunningly beautiful and some incredible 59 00:03:01.139 --> 00:03:05.219 performances, but I couldn't kind of see how it all fit together. 60 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:09.120 And I have to say the 2nd time I watched it, it was clearer, but 61 00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:12.599 it does seem to operate on a logic that I'm not always able to 62 00:03:12.599 --> 00:03:13.139 follow. 63 00:03:13.139 --> 00:03:16.919 And some of it is the sort of logic of myth and mythology and 64 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:17.639 things like that. 65 00:03:17.699 --> 00:03:20.039 It seems to be really packed and really dense. 66 00:03:20.099 --> 00:03:24.180 And then this afternoon I read El Sandov's review and she compared 67 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:27.659 it to Ghost Light, which I thought was actually really interesting 68 00:03:27.659 --> 00:03:31.259 because Ghost Light has a very strong thematic core. 69 00:03:31.319 --> 00:03:35.580 It has a real proper vibe and a real kind of atmosphere that 70 00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:37.259 everything is working towards. 71 00:03:37.259 --> 00:03:39.719 And on 1st viewing it makes very little sense. 72 00:03:39.780 --> 00:03:42.900 It's hard to see how all the pieces fit together. 73 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.520 And so, there's a sense in which this is an episode that is being 74 00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.460 told in a way that we're not used to. 75 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:53.580 And I still think it is a bit talky in the middle, but I think 76 00:03:53.580 --> 00:03:54.599 it's magnificent. 77 00:03:54.659 --> 00:03:57.000 And like you, Brendan, I've not been able to stop thinking about 78 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:58.979 it since I 1st saw it. 79 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:02.400 Well, I just have to concur that, you know, I gave it that 80 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:04.740 breathing space because I kept thinking about it too. 81 00:04:06.000 --> 00:04:08.819 Well, I mean, let's talk about Africa. 82 00:04:08.879 --> 00:04:11.699 Doctor Who has been set in Africa before. 83 00:04:12.419 --> 00:04:17.759 For a few brief moments in the middle of the Dalek Master plan 84 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:19.740 where we visit Egypt. 85 00:04:21.180 --> 00:04:26.100 And I thought that, you know, that it just looked amazing. 86 00:04:26.160 --> 00:04:30.540 Like the attempt to create, you know, Lagos in Wales, I think. 87 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.959 Although there must have been some shooting overseas as well. 88 00:04:34.019 --> 00:04:37.319 There must have been some shooting in Africa, I think, some of the 89 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:40.379 earliest scenes in the market. 90 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.139 But I thought it looked amazing, like a really striking looking 91 00:04:43.139 --> 00:04:46.379 episode and vastly different from anything that we've seen 92 00:04:46.379 --> 00:04:46.800 before. 93 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.959 It reminded me of, oh, I can't think of the show now. 94 00:04:52.019 --> 00:04:55.259 It was done several years ago and it was all set in Africa and 95 00:04:55.259 --> 00:04:56.519 they did one series of it. 96 00:04:56.579 --> 00:04:58.199 Oh, somebody will remind me. 97 00:04:58.259 --> 00:05:00.959 I think it's the ladies something detective agency. 98 00:05:01.019 --> 00:05:01.560 I can't remember. 99 00:05:01.620 --> 00:05:04.500 Oh yeah, the number one ladies detective agency, is that it? 100 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:04.980 Yes. 101 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:05.459 Correct. 102 00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:06.000 Yeah. 103 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:10.199 And that's what it reminded me of, just their experiences and what 104 00:05:10.199 --> 00:05:12.540 they were talking about, and I really appreciated that. 105 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.319 But then the barbershop, the sparseness of the barbershop and the 106 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.079 streets and that I thought was really striking. 107 00:05:19.139 --> 00:05:23.160 Look, I did think that the initial scenes obviously were filmed in 108 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:27.779 Lagos, but then we went into the, we've done the studio market and 109 00:05:27.779 --> 00:05:31.379 I did kind of went, well, I think it looks better than the market 110 00:05:31.379 --> 00:05:32.339 in turn left. 111 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:36.480 I think it because, yeah, it's shot closer and stuff and there 112 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:39.779 seem to be more people and the and the set seem to be bigger. 113 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:44.579 I'm just, I'm just seeing here. they did commission and shoot 114 00:05:44.579 --> 00:05:49.500 drone shots of a market in Lagos and everything else was created 115 00:05:49.500 --> 00:05:50.519 in the studio. 116 00:05:50.579 --> 00:05:53.519 The funny thing is, those really tight early shots in the market 117 00:05:53.519 --> 00:05:54.839 where it's really crowded. 118 00:05:54.899 --> 00:05:58.019 It didn't strike me immediately that, oh, this studio. 119 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.379 It was when the doctor goes into the back alley and sees the 120 00:06:01.379 --> 00:06:03.180 missing posters and finds Omo's shop. 121 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.540 And I was kind of okay with that feeling a bit more like studio 122 00:06:06.540 --> 00:06:08.879 because we're meant to feel that this is different. 123 00:06:09.000 --> 00:06:13.620 Yes, to the bustling, lively, happy market outside. 124 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:17.699 And, you know, with how happy the doctor is as soon as he's 125 00:06:17.699 --> 00:06:18.420 walking through there. 126 00:06:19.500 --> 00:06:23.100 Yeah, in Doctor Who terms, it does make me think of turn left. 127 00:06:23.160 --> 00:06:25.199 It does make me think of the Rings of Akaten. 128 00:06:25.259 --> 00:06:28.199 But in both of those cases, you never really feel like the doctor 129 00:06:28.199 --> 00:06:29.100 is part of the market. 130 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:32.459 Like the doctor is there and is a tourist enjoying these things 131 00:06:32.459 --> 00:06:33.120 whereas... 132 00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:37.620 Shoot, he just really manages to subtly play that feeling of 133 00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:40.439 belonging that the doctor is talking about. 134 00:06:40.500 --> 00:06:41.519 And it's quite beautiful. 135 00:06:41.579 --> 00:06:43.199 It's something we don't often see. 136 00:06:43.259 --> 00:06:45.720 You know, something about the doctor's characters. 137 00:06:45.779 --> 00:06:46.800 The doctor is distant. 138 00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:51.660 So to have somewhere that the doctor feels like home is absolutely 139 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:52.139 beautiful. 140 00:06:52.199 --> 00:06:57.779 I mean, this is a doctor who's much less guarded and much more 141 00:06:57.779 --> 00:06:59.879 willing to show his feelings. 142 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:01.319 He's someone who is open. 143 00:07:01.379 --> 00:07:05.579 He's not, it's not like he's a mask or a performance the way maybe 144 00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:08.939 tenants doctor is or the way that Jody's doctor was. 145 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.839 She was very guarded and very private and this doctor isn't like 146 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:13.259 that at all. 147 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.199 There's that scene at the beginning, which I just thought was 148 00:07:16.199 --> 00:07:19.139 magnificently good because like you're casting a black doctor. 149 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:25.139 And what we have here is a black doctor, a black script writer, and 150 00:07:25.139 --> 00:07:30.240 a black director, all working on this episode, and this episode 151 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:36.240 really centres Shooty's blackness, and it lets him talk about it 152 00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:37.439 for the 1st time. 153 00:07:37.500 --> 00:07:40.019 There's that, you know, that moment in dot and bubble where he 154 00:07:40.019 --> 00:07:43.500 suddenly realises that all of those people are racist and that's 155 00:07:43.500 --> 00:07:45.180 why he's being treated in this way. 156 00:07:45.420 --> 00:07:50.699 Um, but here he talks, he talks to us about the experience of 157 00:07:50.699 --> 00:07:54.720 being black and what the barbershop means to him. 158 00:07:54.779 --> 00:07:59.579 And like I was aware that the black barbershop is an important 159 00:07:59.579 --> 00:08:03.899 element in African-American culture. 160 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:06.959 You know, you see that depicted on TV and in movies and things all 161 00:08:06.959 --> 00:08:07.800 the time. 162 00:08:07.860 --> 00:08:11.819 I didn't know that it was a thing in Africa itself. 163 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:17.579 But that barbershop where men meet and it's a safe place. 164 00:08:17.699 --> 00:08:21.959 But I really appreciated that insight from him. 165 00:08:22.019 --> 00:08:25.259 And the wonderful way that, you know, it's portrayed as something 166 00:08:25.259 --> 00:08:27.959 like I, you know, this is an alien thing, I'm the doctor and you 167 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:29.699 won't understand this, Belinda. 168 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.700 And then Belinda comes back and talks about being taken to India 169 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:36.840 by her nan and having exactly the same experience and feeling the 170 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:37.259 same way. 171 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.860 And that's not a perspective that we've heard expressed in Doctor 172 00:08:40.860 --> 00:08:41.580 Who before. 173 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:47.940 And it is a thing where having a black doctor opens up the show to 174 00:08:47.940 --> 00:08:50.519 different types of storytelling and that's exactly what's 175 00:08:50.519 --> 00:08:50.940 happening here. 176 00:08:51.419 --> 00:08:55.500 And that was a beautiful scene and a lovely moment with Belinda. 177 00:08:55.559 --> 00:08:58.980 She had some nice moments actually in the episode. 178 00:08:59.039 --> 00:09:01.679 She had a couple of other lines later on, which I thought were 179 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:05.460 very nice, even if I did feel like she was a bit sidelined for 180 00:09:05.460 --> 00:09:06.179 part of the episode. 181 00:09:06.240 --> 00:09:09.059 Like, obviously they need to get to flash back in so they could 182 00:09:09.059 --> 00:09:10.620 have Mrs. Flood and that sort of stuff. 183 00:09:10.679 --> 00:09:15.899 But it would have been nice, had, um, Abby, perhaps been 184 00:09:15.899 --> 00:09:18.299 monitoring her in the marketplace and led her there. 185 00:09:18.419 --> 00:09:21.840 I just kind of thought that was a little bit clunky, if I can put 186 00:09:21.840 --> 00:09:24.179 it like that, because at one point in the marketplace blending 187 00:09:24.179 --> 00:09:28.500 gets pulled up for knocking over the, you know, the store and then 188 00:09:28.500 --> 00:09:30.779 she's okay, like nothing happened. 189 00:09:30.840 --> 00:09:35.039 Yeah, I would have liked if Abby had sort of been monitoring this 190 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:38.159 companion and then sort of directed her or just something there 191 00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:40.679 like that was something for me that that I would have liked to 192 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:41.100 have seen. 193 00:09:41.820 --> 00:09:46.620 But when she was in the action, later on, she was extremely good 194 00:09:46.620 --> 00:09:49.259 and I can't remember the line, but there was a line that she did 195 00:09:49.259 --> 00:09:52.500 say, I'm sure she said it to Abby, which was very powerful, but I 196 00:09:52.500 --> 00:09:53.340 can't remember why. 197 00:09:53.399 --> 00:09:54.720 Is it hurt people, hurt people? 198 00:09:54.779 --> 00:09:56.820 Was that her line or was that for his line? 199 00:09:56.879 --> 00:09:57.720 Yeah, that was her line. 200 00:09:57.840 --> 00:09:59.759 Yeah, that was blind. 201 00:09:59.820 --> 00:10:01.259 Yeah, that was the line then. 202 00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:01.679 Yeah. 203 00:10:01.740 --> 00:10:05.460 And I just thought, wow, you know, again, showing what a great 204 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:07.080 character that she is. 205 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:10.980 I mean, I believe this was originally written for Millie's 206 00:10:10.980 --> 00:10:11.279 character. 207 00:10:11.340 --> 00:10:12.240 Oh, right. 208 00:10:12.299 --> 00:10:14.100 But you don't realise that, you know. 209 00:10:15.179 --> 00:10:19.200 In fact, I think it works really well because there's that thing 210 00:10:19.200 --> 00:10:23.279 where she really wants to go home and and the doctor's going to 211 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:23.639 take her. 212 00:10:23.700 --> 00:10:26.940 He goes out, like he explains how important this place is, but he 213 00:10:26.940 --> 00:10:28.200 goes out with a vindicator. 214 00:10:28.259 --> 00:10:32.220 He uses the vindicator, and then he's coming back in to just leave 215 00:10:32.220 --> 00:10:37.679 and she says, no, you go, you know, go to this place that makes 216 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:38.220 you happy. 217 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:41.759 And people have been sort of complaining a little bit about her 218 00:10:41.759 --> 00:10:44.580 constantly saying, I need to, I need to go home. 219 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:45.600 You have to take me home. 220 00:10:45.659 --> 00:10:50.759 But, One of the things that I've felt is that she continues to 221 00:10:50.759 --> 00:10:52.860 warm to him in a way. 222 00:10:52.919 --> 00:10:55.620 She doesn't want to get home because she doesn't like this. 223 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:59.399 You know, she was desperate to go outside in 1952. 224 00:10:59.580 --> 00:11:04.799 And here she wants the doctor to experience the place that's so 225 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:05.519 important to him. 226 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.460 I mean, that's the nature of this script. 227 00:11:08.519 --> 00:11:10.919 It's a shame like in an 8 episode season. 228 00:11:10.980 --> 00:11:14.340 She wasn't really in last week and this week she was very much in 229 00:11:14.340 --> 00:11:14.940 the background. 230 00:11:15.000 --> 00:11:17.639 You kind of want more with the current companion, but you know 231 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:18.960 that's just the nature of things. 232 00:11:19.019 --> 00:11:19.860 Yeah. 233 00:11:20.460 --> 00:11:26.759 I also think the doctor telling a story about Belinda that we 234 00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:31.259 didn't see and that she hasn't told him. 235 00:11:31.320 --> 00:11:35.639 It is a way of showing us that they have been talking and getting 236 00:11:35.639 --> 00:11:38.220 to know each other in the scenes we haven't seen. 237 00:11:38.220 --> 00:11:42.179 And it's not a story about an adventure they've had together. 238 00:11:42.240 --> 00:11:46.200 It's a story about a day in her life and why she does what she 239 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:50.580 does and how her life has affected people. 240 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:55.139 And it's actually the doctor kind of taking Omo's idea of, you 241 00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:57.840 know, you're the great, you're the great time lord and the great 242 00:11:57.840 --> 00:11:59.159 traveller, you will have so many stories. 243 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:05.039 And the doctor's like, you don't have to be a timelord and a 244 00:12:05.039 --> 00:12:06.899 traveller and save planets to have stories. 245 00:12:07.259 --> 00:12:09.659 I think the story's just beautiful. 246 00:12:09.720 --> 00:12:12.179 And the 2nd time I watched it, I found myself really incredibly 247 00:12:12.179 --> 00:12:17.399 moved by it because, you know, when they wheel her out. 248 00:12:17.460 --> 00:12:21.600 Like the doctor says, they wield the lady away and then she starts 249 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.559 crying and she's just crying, of course, because she's exhausted 250 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:29.220 and because of what she's given up, not because the ladies died. 251 00:12:29.279 --> 00:12:31.259 So when the lady comes back at the end. 252 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:34.620 Um, you know, like I just found myself very moved by that. 253 00:12:34.740 --> 00:12:35.759 I thought it was great. 254 00:12:35.820 --> 00:12:36.720 It was really good. 255 00:12:36.840 --> 00:12:40.080 What do you think of the wall that shows the stories on it? 256 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:44.519 Marvellous. absolutely marvellous. 257 00:12:44.580 --> 00:12:47.039 And the opening title star on it, which is great. 258 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:51.720 You know, we're continuing this theme of the gods break our 259 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:52.320 reality. 260 00:12:52.320 --> 00:12:56.820 Because, you know, we had maestro starts playing the theme and 261 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.919 that goes into the titles and we got Omo is imagining the titles. 262 00:13:01.980 --> 00:13:05.399 Like, he's imagining, he's like, oh, I'm in a pre-credit scene. 263 00:13:06.120 --> 00:13:11.700 Marvellous I liked the way that segued into the titles. that was 264 00:13:11.700 --> 00:13:11.940 good. 265 00:13:12.059 --> 00:13:16.559 I think the way in which that was used did remind me of one of the 266 00:13:16.559 --> 00:13:18.960 chibnal episodes, I can't remember which one it is. 267 00:13:19.259 --> 00:13:21.120 Can you hear me? 268 00:13:21.179 --> 00:13:26.159 We get a backstory for the gods because Jim will really kind of 269 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.299 kind of sets up the pantheon and then Russell runs with it. 270 00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:35.399 And it's an explanation of where those 2 characters come from in. 271 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:36.419 Can you hear me? 272 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:40.019 But it is kind of there for kind of just to illustrate someone's 273 00:13:40.019 --> 00:13:41.820 exposition scene. 274 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:43.919 And so it's not used quite as cleverly. 275 00:13:43.980 --> 00:13:47.279 And I think that this version of Doctor Who has incorporated 276 00:13:47.279 --> 00:13:51.659 animation, like I think the animation of that story that he tells 277 00:13:51.659 --> 00:13:54.480 at the beginning, that Omo tells at the beginning, is really 278 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:59.159 stunningly beautiful, did either you see on the BBC website 279 00:13:59.159 --> 00:14:01.500 there's a longer version of Omo's story? 280 00:14:01.559 --> 00:14:02.940 Oh, no. 281 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:09.600 What I did on my holidays by Omo Esosa in the great tradition? 282 00:14:09.659 --> 00:14:11.039 And it's really good. 283 00:14:11.100 --> 00:14:12.840 It's excellent. 284 00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:16.019 I will put a link to it in the show notes, but it's well worth a 285 00:14:16.019 --> 00:14:16.500 read. 286 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:19.799 And it explains the background to the girl with the blue earrings 287 00:14:19.799 --> 00:14:24.720 as well and tells us a little bit about what Omo's life was like. 288 00:14:24.779 --> 00:14:26.519 So it said in 1965. 289 00:14:26.759 --> 00:14:28.860 And it's in Nigeria. 290 00:14:28.919 --> 00:14:31.980 It's really very interesting and pretty cool. 291 00:14:32.039 --> 00:14:35.279 So what did we think of the barber? 292 00:14:35.340 --> 00:14:39.600 And Abby, our 2 are they antagonists? 293 00:14:39.659 --> 00:14:40.139 Sort of. 294 00:14:40.259 --> 00:14:42.059 How 2 strange? 295 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:44.580 Yeah, our 2 strange antagonists. 296 00:14:44.639 --> 00:14:51.840 I thought both brilliant performances, and the concept of the 297 00:14:51.840 --> 00:14:56.100 barber, as sort of the herald of the gods. 298 00:14:56.159 --> 00:14:59.039 You know, he goes around telling their stories. 299 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:04.080 And the doctor then links that to being an online troll. 300 00:15:04.139 --> 00:15:07.980 And I'm also kind of like, okay, this is also, he's a bit like a 301 00:15:07.980 --> 00:15:11.940 proprietorial fan in that he knows the best way the stories are to 302 00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:15.000 be told and he, if the stories are not being told in the right way 303 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.480 he's going to rip the heart out of the storytellers and the gods. 304 00:15:18.480 --> 00:15:25.019 And just the performance had, it had menace, but it also had 305 00:15:25.019 --> 00:15:26.159 humility. 306 00:15:26.220 --> 00:15:28.080 Oh, I just loved it. 307 00:15:28.139 --> 00:15:29.340 I just loved him. 308 00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:33.720 He played Lord Boreal in his dark materials and he was absolutely 309 00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:35.580 terrifying in that. 310 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:38.820 I spent my whole time going, where do I know this guy from? 311 00:15:38.820 --> 00:15:40.980 And I checked it out. 312 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:44.759 I saw his, you know, MDB page where he had his sort of Lord Boreal 313 00:15:44.759 --> 00:15:45.179 hair. 314 00:15:45.240 --> 00:15:48.179 I thought he was pretty great in that. 315 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:51.000 It's a strange thing, isn't it? 316 00:15:51.059 --> 00:15:53.759 Because he's taken the barber shop over from Omo. 317 00:15:53.820 --> 00:15:56.700 And so at the beginning, the doctor arrives and we don't really 318 00:15:56.700 --> 00:15:58.679 see the barber, like he's there. 319 00:15:58.740 --> 00:16:01.679 He's sort of doing things, but we don't really see him. 320 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:04.080 And he acts like a mythical character. 321 00:16:04.139 --> 00:16:09.480 You know, you know how Fenrick plucks bones from the desert sands 322 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.580 and carves them into chess pieces. 323 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.059 That sort of thing where mythical characters and gods and things 324 00:16:15.059 --> 00:16:19.259 take a normal thing and turn it into something huge and epic. 325 00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:21.000 And that scene of him creating the web. 326 00:16:21.059 --> 00:16:22.139 Do you know what I mean? 327 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.039 That's exactly how you would tell that story in a myth. 328 00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:28.980 And so he is this sort of strange mythic character. 329 00:16:29.039 --> 00:16:29.759 I really bought it. 330 00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:32.279 But he also spends the beginning of the episode being a sort of 331 00:16:32.279 --> 00:16:35.460 Doctor Who villain, you know, like in the next room with the 332 00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:38.460 control panels and all of that, which I thought was pretty great. 333 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.600 I perhaps did not buy it as much as you guys bought it. 334 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:47.100 The whole gods thing, I just didn't quite buy into, like, we're 335 00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:50.700 experiencing these gods now, not the ones that Shooty is talking 336 00:16:50.700 --> 00:16:51.899 about, which we're never seen. 337 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:56.519 It's like when we experience the doctor meeting like Zastor or 338 00:16:56.519 --> 00:17:00.419 Asma or the Borad, which adventures that had never happened, and I 339 00:17:00.419 --> 00:17:03.419 just kind of, I kind of go, oh, it's just words to me. 340 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:05.940 It's sort of like, you know, it's convenient for the plot. 341 00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.160 Um, so the whole gods thing. 342 00:17:08.220 --> 00:17:11.400 I'm just a little bit annoyed with perhaps suddenly she's the 343 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.940 daughter of one of the gods that he's met and he kind of remembers 344 00:17:14.940 --> 00:17:18.240 her but doesn't and that was the aspect that I was going. 345 00:17:18.299 --> 00:17:21.119 Well, I mean, it was great to see Joe Martin and that was a 346 00:17:21.119 --> 00:17:22.380 fantastic shock moment. 347 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:26.700 Um, So does that mean that he met, like, he obviously met her at 348 00:17:26.700 --> 00:17:27.180 that time? 349 00:17:27.180 --> 00:17:29.940 Did he meet the gods at that time when he was Joe Martin? 350 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:34.380 You know, I was just a bit sort of, but putting that to one side. 351 00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:36.119 I thought his performance was wonderful. 352 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:37.859 And I kept thinking about this. 353 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:39.599 I kept thinking, oh, they've got to kill off people. 354 00:17:39.660 --> 00:17:41.039 They've got to be zapped out into space. 355 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:45.000 You know, I'm not seeing anybody getting destroyed in the chair. 356 00:17:45.059 --> 00:17:47.759 But then I realised at the end, like in order for him to have 357 00:17:47.759 --> 00:17:49.559 redemption, that was never going to happen. 358 00:17:49.619 --> 00:17:54.180 And that was actually quite powerful that at the end, he, he could 359 00:17:54.180 --> 00:17:57.599 go and live a normal life and let that go and people could forgive 360 00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:57.779 him. 361 00:17:57.839 --> 00:17:59.339 And I thought that was extremely powerful. 362 00:17:59.400 --> 00:18:03.299 So, I was, this is why I was all muddled and conflicted the 1st 363 00:18:03.299 --> 00:18:07.200 time I watched it because I was wanting, The Doctor Who tropes 364 00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:07.920 that I love. 365 00:18:07.980 --> 00:18:12.900 But then I realised we're not being given that and why is that? 366 00:18:12.960 --> 00:18:17.880 And I thought that was really a wonderful ending, you know, at the 367 00:18:17.880 --> 00:18:18.359 end there. 368 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:20.940 When Omo gives him his father's name. 369 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:23.880 You know, he says I don't have a name for people to trust me 370 00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:24.299 with. 371 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:27.660 And so Omo gives him his father's name and I just think that was 372 00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:28.380 so great. 373 00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:29.880 That was such a great moment. 374 00:18:30.000 --> 00:18:33.359 I mean, the gods thing is really interesting because these don't 375 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:36.119 seem at all to be the gods that we've been talking about over the 376 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:36.960 last couple of years. 377 00:18:37.019 --> 00:18:42.000 Like, you know, Maestro and the and the toy maker and and Larks. 378 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:44.700 That's why I struggle with it because they're ones we haven't 379 00:18:44.700 --> 00:18:45.240 encountered. 380 00:18:45.299 --> 00:18:46.440 And thinking, where does this fit in? 381 00:18:46.500 --> 00:18:48.359 How have we had the time for this? 382 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:51.960 And like the doctor's always been so kind of human over the years 383 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:54.779 he's just met evil people and villains rather than gods. 384 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:58.440 And when it starts going to that territory, I just, I struggle 385 00:18:58.440 --> 00:18:58.799 with it. 386 00:18:58.859 --> 00:18:59.220 I do. 387 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:03.180 Simon said that, I think, online too, that he thinks that the show 388 00:19:03.180 --> 00:19:05.819 is getting too kind of supernatural and stuff. 389 00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.839 I mean, gods and storytelling are super important and they're 390 00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:13.259 intertwined, and these are all real gods who he was mentioning, and 391 00:19:13.259 --> 00:19:16.799 he obviously mentioned some European gods, but some African gods 392 00:19:16.799 --> 00:19:21.420 as well, and the barber and Urbana and stuff. 393 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:22.259 Do you know what I mean? 394 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:24.539 Like they're clearly kind of associated with that. 395 00:19:24.599 --> 00:19:27.359 And there's things going on that I don't know enough. 396 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.759 I know that Anansi is from Ghana, I think, and is a sort of spider 397 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:38.039 trickster figure, and so is appropriate for that, and he talks 398 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:41.759 about Saga, who's from Norse mythology, and Dionysus, obviously. 399 00:19:41.819 --> 00:19:45.240 And, you know, gods are created by stories. 400 00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:47.099 That's where they come from. 401 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.160 And this tells it the other way around. 402 00:19:50.220 --> 00:19:52.140 So there's something about mythology going on there. 403 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.200 But it was one of those things where I felt I'm not not quite 404 00:19:55.200 --> 00:19:58.259 equipped to know exactly what's going on here. 405 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:01.380 But I was kind of content to just sort of let that wash over me a 406 00:20:01.380 --> 00:20:01.799 little bit. 407 00:20:01.859 --> 00:20:05.039 This might be something where I'm just not going to get this and 408 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:06.599 that's kind of okay, I think. 409 00:20:06.660 --> 00:20:08.279 Here's a question. 410 00:20:08.339 --> 00:20:09.900 Is Abina a god at the end? 411 00:20:09.960 --> 00:20:11.279 Like, does she walk away? 412 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.420 Like, she is a god and she just walks off stage left or page right 413 00:20:15.420 --> 00:20:16.619 or whatever it happens to me. 414 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.019 Looking fabulous, by the way. 415 00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:20.160 Awesome. 416 00:20:20.220 --> 00:20:22.559 Her performance was so wonderful. 417 00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:25.200 It was warm when it needed to be warm. 418 00:20:25.259 --> 00:20:27.900 It had an edge to it when it needed to have an edge to it. 419 00:20:27.900 --> 00:20:31.140 And, yeah, I really, really loved her. 420 00:20:31.140 --> 00:20:36.119 And, and having her in that moment with the fugitive doctor, woman 421 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.660 to woman, was Marvellous. 422 00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:46.259 And and something I find really extraordinary because just looking 423 00:20:46.259 --> 00:20:51.059 up the cast here, Ariana Bakari, who is the barber, we have seen 424 00:20:51.059 --> 00:20:56.460 in Doctor Who before, he is Leandro, the Lion Man, in he is, of 425 00:20:56.460 --> 00:20:57.119 course he is. 426 00:20:57.180 --> 00:21:00.480 So another not quite Warriors gate link. 427 00:21:01.019 --> 00:21:05.880 Michelle Asanti seems to have most of her experience in voice 428 00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:06.359 work. 429 00:21:06.420 --> 00:21:09.359 That's not to say that she hasn't appeared on screen, but just 430 00:21:09.359 --> 00:21:13.200 looking here, it seems to be maybe 50-50 on screen and voice work 431 00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:17.339 and yeah, I would just love to see more of her. 432 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:19.799 I'd love to see her back in Doctor Who in the same role. 433 00:21:19.859 --> 00:21:23.279 But yeah, I found her really compelling to watch. 434 00:21:23.339 --> 00:21:28.619 And because, you know, I'm a bloody, you know, anorak with a copy 435 00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:31.440 of the discontinuity guide, when the doctor's saying, I know you 436 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.619 I'm going, well, obviously she's a new character. 437 00:21:34.680 --> 00:21:36.839 She's not going to be the Rani or anything like that. 438 00:21:36.900 --> 00:21:40.440 She's no one we as fans have met before, but I was really drawn 439 00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:42.359 into the mystery of, okay, who is she then? 440 00:21:43.019 --> 00:21:44.400 Yeah. 441 00:21:44.460 --> 00:21:49.500 And yeah, then using that as a way to bring Joe Martin in genius. 442 00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:54.059 See, I wanted them to then have one of those flashbacks in the 443 00:21:54.059 --> 00:21:54.420 picture. 444 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:56.400 You see, that's the anorex that I am. 445 00:21:56.460 --> 00:22:00.180 We talked about all that, but we didn't see it over there and I 446 00:22:00.180 --> 00:22:01.319 kind of really wanted that. 447 00:22:01.319 --> 00:22:03.240 Yeah, that would have been great. 448 00:22:03.900 --> 00:22:05.519 Yeah, yeah. 449 00:22:05.579 --> 00:22:09.420 This is why I considered this episode to be good, but there's 450 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:11.400 little things that I pick apart, you know? 451 00:22:11.940 --> 00:22:14.940 the things with the gods and that sort of thing, right? 452 00:22:14.940 --> 00:22:16.859 I just kind of think, oh, it was right there. 453 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:18.359 Give us that. 454 00:22:18.539 --> 00:22:22.740 I think like keeping the Joe Martin thing a little bit Vegas, super 455 00:22:22.740 --> 00:22:23.220 interesting. 456 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:25.559 Like, does he remember what happened to Joe Martin? 457 00:22:25.619 --> 00:22:26.519 I don't think he should. 458 00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:31.200 But also it's the previous time that the doctor's been black, and 459 00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:34.079 you kind of think maybe she needed to be there? 460 00:22:34.140 --> 00:22:35.940 And it's so generous. 461 00:22:36.000 --> 00:22:36.720 Do you know what I mean? 462 00:22:36.779 --> 00:22:38.279 Like, it's so generous. 463 00:22:38.339 --> 00:22:43.500 Russell, I think, has treated the cibnolera in a sort of kindly 464 00:22:43.500 --> 00:22:44.460 and generous way. 465 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:48.359 And given that Joe Martin as the fugitive doctor is one of the 466 00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:51.839 best things about the era, having her back just for that moment, I 467 00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:52.859 thought was really terrific. 468 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:53.640 Really good. 469 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:56.579 And then all of the clips of all the other doctors, you know? 470 00:22:56.640 --> 00:22:57.299 Yeah. 471 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:00.480 Although mine is one the fact that Colin Baker had like one 472 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.180 millisecond at the end. the great tradition. 473 00:23:03.480 --> 00:23:07.799 I have just noticed that Michelle Asanti has been in Doctor Who 474 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.420 before as well she is credited as neighbour in the forest of the 475 00:23:12.420 --> 00:23:12.660 night. 476 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.259 So I'm guessing I'm guessing maybe she was complaining about the 477 00:23:16.259 --> 00:23:17.519 hydrangeas. don't know. 478 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:19.680 Can someone cut them? 479 00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.880 So this is reasons why both of these actors now have to be in 480 00:23:23.880 --> 00:23:26.880 another episode because they just want to erase those 2 episodes 481 00:23:26.880 --> 00:23:27.779 from there. 482 00:23:28.799 --> 00:23:31.920 Hey, I like the woman who lived. 483 00:23:31.980 --> 00:23:35.759 I don't mind either fast of the night, oddly enough. 484 00:23:35.759 --> 00:23:38.700 All right. 485 00:23:38.759 --> 00:23:42.359 Well, um, there is one other thing that we haven't mentioned while 486 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.420 we're talking about people who have been in the show before. 487 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:50.279 So Belinda notices, and if you don't want to be spoiled, this 488 00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:54.359 isn't a spoiler, it is in the closing credits, but we are going to 489 00:23:54.359 --> 00:24:00.059 speculate about the finale or the next few episodes. 490 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.119 And if you haven't noticed this thing, you might find that 491 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:03.960 irritating. 492 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:06.779 So if you're particularly squeamish about that, you might want to 493 00:24:06.779 --> 00:24:10.619 bow out, but make sure that you, you know, obviously listen to 500 494 00:24:09.960 --> 00:24:11.579 year diary. 495 00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:16.200 But I want to talk about Captain Poppy, who is the creepy little 496 00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:22.319 girl, I think is how Belinda puts it, who she just spots for a 497 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:22.920 2nd. 498 00:24:23.099 --> 00:24:26.579 And she does say to the doctor, did you see the creepy little 499 00:24:26.579 --> 00:24:27.059 girl? 500 00:24:27.059 --> 00:24:31.980 And the doctor says, all the stories are leaking out or something 501 00:24:31.980 --> 00:24:33.539 and getting mixed up. 502 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:39.839 But that is Captain Poppy, who we last saw in the 2024 classic 503 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:42.299 Space Babies. 504 00:24:42.359 --> 00:24:44.160 And thus it gets a -one for me. 505 00:24:46.079 --> 00:24:52.079 So this episode can't get more than an 8 now, so there's a ceiling 506 00:24:52.079 --> 00:24:52.559 to it. 507 00:24:52.619 --> 00:24:56.039 Look, I mean, as much as, you know, I disagree with you on space 508 00:24:56.039 --> 00:24:58.980 babies, the fact that she's there is an interesting thing and I 509 00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:02.160 think if these stories are bleeding, what's going to happen in the 510 00:25:02.160 --> 00:25:07.140 next episode and who are we going to then see, obviously, in the 511 00:25:07.140 --> 00:25:07.619 finale? 512 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.819 Yeah. 513 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.420 I didn't actually realise it was Poppy until you mentioned it just 514 00:25:12.420 --> 00:25:13.920 before recording, Nathan. 515 00:25:13.980 --> 00:25:18.180 And my immediate thought was, it's one of the timeless children. 516 00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.660 You know, it's one of the pre-Jo Martin doctors. 517 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:26.039 But no, it being poppy is a lovely, is a lovely callback. 518 00:25:26.160 --> 00:25:27.059 Yeah. 519 00:25:27.119 --> 00:25:31.380 And even if it was never explained who she was, when we have 520 00:25:31.380 --> 00:25:35.700 Doctor Who doing myths and legends and gods and stories, it's okay 521 00:25:35.700 --> 00:25:37.859 to have things that aren't explained. 522 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:41.220 And, you know, all all the showrunners have done that at some 523 00:25:41.220 --> 00:25:41.519 point. 524 00:25:41.579 --> 00:25:46.440 Like, I mean, even if we don't see any of them again in the finale 525 00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:50.700 it's, it might be mentioned like there might be consequences for 526 00:25:50.700 --> 00:25:52.440 other bleed throughs, et cetera. 527 00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:57.240 So, yeah, you know, as soon as I saw her, I thought, mhm. 528 00:25:57.299 --> 00:26:00.119 Okay, that's who it is, is it? 529 00:26:00.539 --> 00:26:05.819 I do like that it does emphasise that those babies were meant to 530 00:26:05.819 --> 00:26:07.920 be creepy because they definitely were. 531 00:26:10.980 --> 00:26:14.519 Just before we go, though, I do want to say one thing. 532 00:26:14.579 --> 00:26:20.099 Richard has spoken to fans, someone who's listening, who talk to 533 00:26:20.099 --> 00:26:22.740 him a little bit about Lux and Richard quoted some of the things 534 00:26:22.740 --> 00:26:25.079 that he said about Larks. 535 00:26:25.140 --> 00:26:30.539 He sent quite a long message to Richard, and I haven't got his 536 00:26:30.539 --> 00:26:32.400 permission to read it out or anything like that. 537 00:26:32.460 --> 00:26:36.539 But I have to say that some of the stuff that I said, I think, was 538 00:26:36.539 --> 00:26:41.640 informed by what he had said in particular about the importance of 539 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:44.220 barbers in African-American culture, which is something I was 540 00:26:44.220 --> 00:26:47.099 vaguely aware of, but he clarified quite a lot. 541 00:26:47.220 --> 00:26:50.880 And he did mention, and we haven't mentioned this, the thing about 542 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:54.960 cornrows, and I did sort of look this up later, that corners were 543 00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:00.839 used by enslaved people to carry messages and maps and things like 544 00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.079 that. 545 00:27:01.140 --> 00:27:04.380 And he also mentioned the importance of hair. 546 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:08.279 You know, that hairstyles for African-American people have been, uh 547 00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:12.059 like are a cultural marker and are hugely significant. 548 00:27:12.119 --> 00:27:13.500 And that's something that he mentioned. 549 00:27:13.559 --> 00:27:16.859 So I just wanted to say, I'm not going to read that out because I 550 00:27:16.859 --> 00:27:20.279 don't have permission, but I really, really appreciate his insight 551 00:27:20.279 --> 00:27:21.960 and his engagement. 552 00:27:22.019 --> 00:27:25.799 It was a really, really interesting read and important, I think, in 553 00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:29.519 the way that you and I came to think about the episode, Brendan. 554 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:31.380 Yeah, absolutely. 555 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:32.339 Thank you, Alan. 556 00:27:32.400 --> 00:27:33.539 Your words were absolutely beautiful. 557 00:27:33.599 --> 00:27:35.160 Absolutely beautiful. 558 00:27:35.220 --> 00:27:37.380 Well, I found it extremely interesting. 559 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:39.000 The whole hair braiding stuff. 560 00:27:39.059 --> 00:27:41.400 And I thought, you know, that's what I love in Doctor Who, things 561 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:46.140 like that that educate and inform and widen your worldview, you 562 00:27:46.140 --> 00:27:46.440 know? 563 00:27:46.440 --> 00:27:48.299 Yeah, you know, I think that's brilliant. 564 00:27:48.359 --> 00:27:52.019 And getting back to something you said earlier, Todd, that's why I 565 00:27:52.019 --> 00:27:57.180 actually quite appreciated the use of gods we recognise, you know 566 00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.859 talking about Loki. 567 00:27:58.859 --> 00:28:01.980 And, you know, I hadn't heard of saga, but I'd heard of Dionysus. 568 00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:06.240 And I had only vaguely heard of Anansi, but it's kind of a way of 569 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:09.660 going, whichever of these gods you've heard of as a viewer. 570 00:28:09.720 --> 00:28:12.299 You have an anchor point to then understand. 571 00:28:12.539 --> 00:28:17.400 A Nancy or Saga or Dionysus, if you're not familiar with Greek 572 00:28:17.400 --> 00:28:18.359 mythology, for instance. 573 00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:24.000 And I think when the new series sets out to educate, it often does 574 00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.019 it in a really beautiful way that's not info dumping. 575 00:28:28.019 --> 00:28:31.200 You know we have the word assassin in English today. 576 00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.539 But it made me go, oh, okay, like, I was already understanding 577 00:28:36.539 --> 00:28:39.180 what was going on, but it's like, oh, this gives me additional 578 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:44.579 context as someone who, you know, is a white viewer who doesn't 579 00:28:44.579 --> 00:28:48.480 know about as much about black culture as perhaps I should, and it 580 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:49.500 gives me an anchor point. 581 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:51.900 It helps me understand the richness of the story even more. 582 00:28:51.960 --> 00:28:53.759 That's a really good point, Brendan. 583 00:28:53.819 --> 00:28:54.960 Nicely put. 584 00:28:55.019 --> 00:28:56.099 All right. 585 00:28:56.160 --> 00:28:58.259 Well, in that case, I think we might wind up. 586 00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:00.779 I have some things to plug. 587 00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:07.259 I've already mentioned 500-year diaries season 2, the 2nd coming 588 00:29:07.259 --> 00:29:11.519 which just released its episode on the Seeds of Death last Sunday 589 00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:15.720 and this coming Sunday, we'll be looking at the return of the 590 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:20.220 Santarans in the Santaran experiment, and you can keep up with us 591 00:29:20.220 --> 00:29:26.039 at FlightTorentirety.com on Blue Sky or at FTE podcast on Mastodon 592 00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:27.480 or Twitter, if you insist. 593 00:29:27.539 --> 00:29:30.119 Brandon, do you have anything to plug? 594 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:35.400 Just the most recent episode of the 3 handed game, this green 595 00:29:35.400 --> 00:29:39.059 unpleasant land, which is on Emily, which is the last episode of 596 00:29:39.059 --> 00:29:40.140 the new Avengers. 597 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.400 And before we go, I just want to continue with my occasional 598 00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:49.619 series on linking back the 2nd Russell T. Davies era to the 599 00:29:49.619 --> 00:29:53.400 William Hartnell era, this being the 5th episode of season two 600 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:57.900 links very nicely with the 5th story of season two, the Web 601 00:29:57.900 --> 00:29:58.500 Planet. 602 00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:01.740 She got a web? 603 00:30:02.039 --> 00:30:04.079 You've got a web. 604 00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:05.819 You've got a web. 605 00:30:05.940 --> 00:30:08.640 You got a very poetic way of speaking and telling story. 606 00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:14.759 And you have a central brain repository in the middle of 607 00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:16.380 everything. 608 00:30:16.380 --> 00:30:19.200 And Vicky calls the animus a giant spider. 609 00:30:19.259 --> 00:30:25.200 We have a giant spider here, and the threat here is eliminated by 610 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:26.759 the destruction of the giant spider. 611 00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:30.359 Well, that's excellent. 612 00:30:30.420 --> 00:30:32.759 I'm waiting for us to get to the chase now. 613 00:30:37.259 --> 00:30:41.220 And Nathan, Nathan, what's your 6 word story for your life? 614 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.200 I podcast I work i podcast? 615 00:30:43.259 --> 00:30:44.099 Yeah, basically. 616 00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:46.440 It's actually a podcast, I podcast, I podcast, really. 617 00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:47.460 Oh okay. 618 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:48.059 Yeah, yeah. 619 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:49.740 One day I'll figure it out. 620 00:30:51.299 --> 00:30:52.920 All right. 621 00:30:52.980 --> 00:30:56.279 Well, in that case, all that remains is for me to say, until next 622 00:30:56.279 --> 00:30:58.980 time, laugh and tell stories. 623 00:30:59.039 --> 00:31:01.500 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 624 00:31:01.559 --> 00:31:02.579 Good night. 625 00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:03.420 See you soon.