Lucky Day

[0:00]

Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd Grace and Bountiful Human Empire.

The only Doctor Who flash cast that's happy the Doctor Who is finally warning an unsuspecting public about the menace of podcasting.

I'm Nathan.

I'm James.

I'm Simon.

I'm Todd.

And I'm the reason we no longer randomly date anymore, although mostly armless for this episode.

Well, um, we are here to talk about series 2, season 2, uh, episode four, which is called Lucky Day, written by Pete McTie, and directed by Peter Whore, who we saw earlier on this year in the robot revolution, and then a very long time ago in A Good Man Goes to War.

So let's just start off by talking generally about how we felt about this episode.

I'm going to say quite positive.

I liked it quite a lot.

What did you think, Simon?

[01:01]

I really quite liked it a lot.

I think we all have to declare a differing levels of conflict of interest here because I mean, I've known Pete McTie for 36 years now.

Even putting that to one side.

I actually, I actually think it was a very, very, very strong episode, I think it starts in a way that you think, oh, yes, I know what this is going to be.

And then it doesn't end up there at all.

It uses the single episode format really well, which is something I'm very positive about when stories do that rather than trying to ape 4 episodes stories sort of squished together.

Look, it was entertaining.

It was exciting, interesting, well done, well performed, well written, what's not to like.

What did you think, Todd?

Well, a conflict of interest, also disclosure.

In size of my beat for about 35 years as well, and um, I think it's really challenging to do doctor light episodes after 20 years.

I think it's even more challenging to put them into an 8 episode season when people just want the doctor, the doctor, the doctor.

[02:04]

I think it's incredibly difficult to pull things off after an excellent episode of Doctor Who, let alone 2 in a row.

So I think, you know, um, his back was up against the wall and actually pulling this one off, and I think he did admirably, and I really enjoyed it, and I thought it was a very strong episode, possibly my favourite of his so far.

I think it's my favourite episode of his so far.

What did you think about it, James?

What, say, like, what's my general feeling?

Yeah.

Well, I thought that was what Kate was doing with Ibrahim.

Well, that's more than a general. more than a general feeling.

Oh, just feeling the general.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it.

I think I said this here at the pub last night.

Nathan.

It's kind of like love and monsters, in a way, you know, and that's that's high praise.

I love love monsters.

But if Elton Pope was a bastard.

[03:06]

Exactly.

So, no, no, I really enjoyed it.

I thought it was really strong.

I thought it was like very well written disclaimer.

I don't really know Pete McTai, but I still enjoyed it.

Brilliant.

That's the 1st independent statement we've had.

Yes, exactly.

Hastily backed up with a second.

I only met dear Pete very briefly at Simon and Brian's wedding.

So I hadn't met him really before, and I was delighted to see his name on this, because of course, everyone's a fan of Wentworth, and is that, which obviously makes Wentworth Cannon now, because of the final scene.

I really love a linear tight Doctor Who plot.

I really like something that just allows us and the heel turn was superb.

The only thing that bothered me was the amount of empathy that the young actor.

I also loved the duality of the very young fella playing Conrad at 8 and the actor playing him at 2526 because they did look alike.

[04:11]

But he had so much warmth and empathy in his eyes and watching Sky News, if you managed to enjoy that on Saturday for their local federal elections in Australia, you could see that no one really had kind eyes. being reported.

Peter Pretland certainly didn't.

But, um, it was it was just he was too warm.

But then, of course, we're seeing him through Ruby's eyes.

So of course, when the mask falls and it's a flawless.

I want to hear Todd's view on this, but it was a flawless performance.

And really, a very simple linear plot, a narrative gives the actors lots of room to do what they do best.

And what Kate does best at whatever time of the morning that is in her Marvel Tower.

I haven't got questions why unit actually does need to show off that much.

And I think that was a really nice, I'm sure Pete meant a really nice nod on, it's not very English, is it?

It's not very British.

You're all being a bit showy.

I quite liked it when you're in an old shoe shop behind the Acton Hilton or wherever it was that Liz Shaw used to have to budge into.

[05:11]

Or a country pile.

Ouch.

Yeah.

But anyway, um, perfect casting.

I was getting sort of strong Stuart from Queer's Folk Vibes, actually, from the lead.

But prettier, obviously.

So this is a Dr. Light episode. 3rd Dr. Light episode in what looks like it's going to be a fairly short era.

And obviously some people are unhappy about that.

But I have to say that really it's only Russell's era that can probably pull off a Dr. Light story because he creates a world.

And in a sense, this is what I thought that the new RTD era was going to be like, that we would have more We would have more Mel.

We would have more cherry and Carla and all of that sort of thing.

So I was really happy to see all that stuff again.

And I think we'd also seen that merely was capable of sustaining a whole doctor light episode on her own.

Yeah, well, she did that last year, didn't she?

She did that last year and that in 73 yards.

[06:14]

That's when I thought, wow, you've actually got something here.

I wasn't that impressed before that point.

And so having her front and centre here, I knew that she was going to be good and she was great.

Yeah, I don't find the character that didn't find the character that engaging when she's playing against shooty, but when she's got these opportunities to basically have an episode to herself, I think it really does show what she's capable of.

Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?

Belinda seems to be sort of a much better drawn character.

Absolutely.

A little bit more like the characters from RTD one, whereas merely was kind of left to just kind of play the companion in a very generic way.

She didn't have a very well drawn character, I think, which was surprising to me.

But I thought she was magnificent in this.

Again, I think it hinges on Millie's extraordinary performance, and once again, 73 yards was a fave for me last year, except I really want to know what old granny Millie was whispering into her mother's ear that made her shoot off.

[07:16]

I'm still not really quite bitter about not knowing that.

I want to hear what Todd thinks about that too.

I also want to...

Oh, because you've always got, you've always throw something in there that no one expects.

But I also want to hear what Tom thinks about her hair because it did change quite a bit and it's quite long when she comes back.

So I think there's definitely going to be a short experience there.

I hope so anyway.

But it was also really nice to get just to see, she's got an innocence.

And as, you know, a friend of the podcast, Alan, in the US, just messaged and said, um, the scars that Millie shows at 20 years of age of travelling with the doctor and having seen death and so much are really, really forefronted here.

And really nicely played and maybe that's why she's so susceptible to Conrad because she's carrying a lot of unhealed experiences just after that.

Yeah. well, of course she is.

It's not just being adopted and the whole business with her mother.

[08:16]

There's always with Russell.

There's deeper levels if you want to dig for them or look for them.

And I think, and when I say Russell, I mean Russell Zera, because Pete really really understood the character and why absolute sympathy for everything merely went through in this one and Kate as well, but for different reasons.

James.

I totally agree with that and that's one of the things I loved about this episode is that we we often see how damaging the doctor's world is to people, but we don't usually delve into it this deeply.

We don't talk about it in mental health terms, which is I found really refreshing, her sort of thing, I'm in trauma.

I've, I've, I've got PTSD.

I, like last year was a lot.

I think I need some time.

I found that really, like, like, it actually added to the realism of this, you know, fantasy world that, you know, she thought gods, like she, what was that, that line?

[09:25]

I was eaten by a double bass.

Yeah, that was refreshing.

Seeing her come to that realisation in real time.

And I just got sucked into her all that and and then Conrad was there and it was obvious that he was going to be this healing energy for her.

And then, of course, it all just took a turn and what a turn it took.

Like, I mean, I was quite happy to go with the story that as it was playing out.

I thought, oh, yeah, no, that's decent, that's fine.

But then with that betrayal, it just stepped it up a notch and the way it went then, like it just took off.

What I sort of think makes it work from that point of view is that there are very few people for her to be able to talk to about the experience.

I mean, I know at the end of Jody, we had kind of the ex-companion sort of ex-companion's anonymous group talking about meeting the doctor and so on like that.

But this is different.

I mean, yes, she's got the unit people, but, you know, there aren't very many of those that she can really sort of talk to on the same level.

And the point is that you can believe that she would open herself up to Conrad and that's what's so refreshing.

[10:27]

You're not sort of, it doesn't feel contrived.

And I think that's that's a very great positive for the for the script writing.

I really, really bought the romance.

I love a romance.

You know, one of the reasons I loved rogue last year is I'm a big sucker for romance and I thought that that was well done.

Here, what I think is interesting about this is we've never been here before with a companion and arguably in RTD one.

The companion who leaves on the on her own terms, but after a year of real proper trauma is Martha.

And when she comes back, the following year, she just comes back for contractual reasons to be in a couple of silly, terrible stories.

And then she's off again.

Yeah, she doesn't really get a good roll of the dice there, does she?

But anyway.

But this, you know, like, this is kind of what I always wanted, you know, like, I think Kate has written before about what happens to companions after, you know, like after they leave the doctor and stuff.

And so being able to see that and having an off format episode where that's what it's about was so much more interesting than any number of other things we could have done.

[11:30]

I think as a doctor lied episode, it's not a kind of formal exercise, the way that blink is, or love and monsters.

Do you know what I mean?

It is just a story set in the world that's been created by this new version of Doctor Who.

And I thought it was great.

I thought it was probably good.

This reminds me of the conversations that you often had when you were recording the classic series at FTE when you'd talk about Sarah Jane Smith and what she went through and how that really kind of she ceased being a real person because she went through so much trauma and and they never really dealt with that, why she's still travelling with the doctor, this kind of...

Yeah, but there's a good way of doing, look, I mean, I accept that as a criticism of that era, but I just, I just don't think that's just the way the show and television works back then.

So it's sort of meaningless, right?

Okay.

But that is the way I do accept that that's something to a greater extent is the way television works now.

And I think doing it in this way, in this episode is far better than some of the, let's see, worthy self-indulgent rubbish that you so often get when they're trying to do these sorts of things.

[12:39]

I'm not just talking about Doctor Who.

I am talking about these sorts of shows generally.

It's like just get on with it.

I just want to go out to the next episode, you know, and I think this doesn't.

And I have seen people talk in other forums about the fact that, oh, well, you know, they're not really, they don't watch Doctor Who for a sort of a romance thing.

And I totally get that.

I understand that, but I don't think that's really what we're watching.

That's kind of the secondary colouring that makes the episode more interesting than otherwise would be.

That makes it more than just a perfunctory getting from A to B to C.

Yeah, no, I thought I thought that was great.

One of the things is, though, that we've always had the doctor improve the lives of the people that have travelled with him in the RTD era.

You know, Rose gets her family back.

Martha reconnects with her family.

She's perhaps the counterexample.

Donna, obviously, things go terribly, but now they're great.

Do you know what?

I don't think that's unique to identity.

I think as a rule, most companions are better off after they've experienced life.

Maybe not, Lisa.

I disagree.

I think she's learned SMR.

Perry.

Well, Adric.

[13:39]

I mean, address, obviously. contributing to the subtitle of the universe, more from Jojo.

Yeah.

So let's move on and talk about the man of the hour, which is Conrad Clark, which I think is a pretty great performance, and I definitely didn't see it coming.

He was extraordinary.

Absolutely extraordinary.

Totally bought him as the love interest, and I thought, and then just the moment he turned.

It was just incredible.

Like he's a really strong actor and having him against her and then Gemma, who I thought was extraordinary as well on this one.

But what you're doing with an actor like that is it's not just the fact that the character is all sweet and lovely and then turn suddenly in that one scene.

It's also because that actor is in general cast in the romantic lead, the hero roles.

And so we as an audience are expecting his character to be a certain kind of character.

And that's clever.

That's good casting.

He's Eric in the live action, um, little mermaid, for God's sake.

[14:46]

Yeah, so I haven't either, but I've, you know, checked up his bio and just to see if I can find any...

I know him for World on Fire, which is sort of a World War 2 leading into World War 2 kind of drama.

He's got that sad face and he's a sympathetic character and someone like that.

So it all works.

He seems to be making a lot more money out of podcasting than we are.

Can I just say that?

There are people out there like that.

I didn't know what we're doing wrong, Nathan.

Come on.

You know?

Monetise it. monetise it.

The podcast needs to be sponsored by a kind of mattress, doesn't it?

Yeah, yeah.

I also thought, too, that we now have 2 female companions in this era who have horrific alt-right boyfriends.

So obviously in the robot revolution, we had, you know, the appalling owl.

And now in this episode, we have Conrad, who goes a kind of full, full maga, you know, by the end of the episode.

[15:48]

What did you think, Richard?

Well, yeah, um, this podcast will definitely need to go QAnon from now on to reap any benefits.

I do want to know Alan races as well.

I want to know, come on, Gran, if you're finding all these titty pics on the interwebs.

Why aren't you finding his QAnon pages?

Or maybe ladies that age don't even notice it or didn't even recognise it.

But it is odd that Ruby got no warning.

But that's just, you know, narrative.

Yeah, that kind of irritated me.

And yes, of course, it's narrative necessity, but it's, it's the, so he's, uh, you know, he's an alright weirdo.

But they're not discreet.

They're usually quite loud.

Like, how does she not know that going to the podcast?

Well, the podcast isn't an alright podcast, isn't it?

isn't the podcast?

It's a trap. to gather evidence at a trap.

Yes, yeah.

Oh, okay.

And they're playing the long game.

Yeah, he's playing the long.

And then he gets to and have his logo.

[16:51]

I don't know who his prop makers are, but obviously in Cardiff, because I love those shriek hats that the boys were wearing and I've definitely got my Christmas sorted if I could get those 2 lads in.

Very festive.

Well, with the reindeer horns.

I mean you're already set, aren't you?

Look, the young man, who did play Conrad?

I didn't recognise him from, I'm not necessarily a little mermaid fan, but superb performance, and the Vault face is on a dime perfect.

That lad could play anything.

He really could.

And I thoroughly believed all of it, and I had huge sympathy.

The only people I didn't have sympathy for were unit because they're so bloody tizzy and twangy and out there, honestly, if you're going to play Marvel, you know, if you, if you want to be, you know, Iron Man's Castle, then, then, you know, just hire Robert Downey Jr. and and give the whole damn thing to that woman who puts stone eggs up her jacksy for a living.

And, you know, I mean, really, it all makes perfect nonsense.

[17:52]

Look, I think the sort of the, in the various shades of alt right and QAnon and so on that there are.

I mean, Al and Conrad kind of represent slightly different flavours of them.

I don't think I don't think the Al character was written particularly well.

I think it was a very one dimensional version of that possibility, whereas I think with Conrad, we actually get a three-dimensional version of it.

In robot revolution.

He's a function of the plot, whereas here he's actually a character that you're kind of interested in finding out how you, what do you like?

I think it's so cleverly done because, in the world we live in, you have all of these people running podcasts and having blogs and getting into the dark places of the internet because they're convinced that there are dark forces in the government working to hide the truth from us about all these things, whether it's vaccines, how vaccines work or whether it's aliens or whether it's the moon landing or whatever it is, right?

And now we're kind of turning this on ahead because in this universe, which the current Doctor Who program is in, we do believe the general public does believe in aliens and unit is a real thing.

[18:57]

And so the fact that, of course, what these people believe is the fact that it's all fake.

It's like people, because I mean, I've known people, I've encountered people who believe the COVID vaccine was a way to control this.

When you press it, of course.

They don't actually admit that it's because they think that we're being injected by microchips or whatever the hell it is because it's constantly shifting and that's why this is so cool because even when comrade is confronted with the evidence and with the doctor actually materialising his TARDIS around him at the end, even the hard evidence is not enough to convince him because he then just goes off to another explanation as to how it's all fake.

And I just think it is such a beautiful and more subtle take on the problems of the modern era.

And I think the problem with some of the other, the stuff that's actually written by RTT is that it's got a great big hammer that comes down and beats us over the head with it.

Whereas here, it just happens in front of you and it, it's the same thing, but just that difference in execution is, makes all the world to man why I think this is so much better than some of the stuff we've seen before.

[20:02]

Well, I think that's a really good observation, Simon, and I do like what you said there.

I just was enthralled with what they were doing with unit, and I thought Jim and Redgrave and and her plot line and what she brought to the table was far more than, I mean, I think I generally think she's very good.

But just seeing the whole team there.

And then I had to laugh when the blinks evacuated from the situation.

But pushing her, like, you know, with her father and all of that stuff, all those little bits that, you know, Pete knows the history of Doctor Who, I just thought was just icing on the cake.

It's that thing where he's actually got the thing in front of him.

Like the wretched shriek is right there, next to him, and he says, brilliantly.

Your special effects have got a lot better before it chomps his arm off, which I just think is so great.

Even when it's there, it's still special effects, and of course, the special effects have got a lot better.

[21:02]

It's nice to have a rubber monster every so often and just to see how well executed they can be nowadays.

I have a question about it.

What sort of security screening these people getting?

I mean, like, Josh is like a new, a new staff member.

He doesn't seem to have gone through any sort of security screening.

Um, like suddenly they just go, oh, look at all this alt right stuff.

And he's a conspiracy theory.

I said, oh my God, obviously he's dodgy. you didn't do that before you employed him.

Yeah.

Oh, well, it's interesting.

Oh, well, I didn't notice that till now.

That's the point.

If you don't notice it when you're watching it, it doesn't matter for me.

So we didn't get to see, we didn't get to see the doctor until the very end.

What did you think of that final confrontation?

I have to say that I loved the line and I've been thinking of it over and over again, the line where he just says, you're exhausting.

And, you know, the last...

[22:04]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I can just hear Pete saying that actually.

Yes.

I thought it was phenomenal.

I thought it was really good and I thought it, it showcased shooting in a different way, you know, I was relieved we didn't have tears, which I keep putting up, but, you know, it was funny.

I didn't really miss the doctor and Belinda from the episode, I think they were used, you know, well, and coming in at the end to bookend at both ends.

I thought it was good.

Um, I think sometimes we love what we love more for their absence and holding his powder till that last scene gave shooting enormous gravitas and presence and it is a perfect scene with 2 formidable young actors.

I'm just impressed that the skills, the the actual just basic physical skills of these actors at such a young age, whatever the training is they get now, it isn't what we saw in the 70s.

[23:07]

Um, it really isn't.

It's spot on.

It was absolutely proper national theatre, rage and repression and perfectly done.

And of course, whatever wisdom will fall on deaf ears, that's the whole point, and it's the futility of opposition with those who choose to remain deaf.

That, again, what, which Russell's era does so well.

We realise whatever we do, there's no point because we won't be heard.

Very dark.

But then that's what this that's what this show does now.

It's the, I deny your reality almost as if it's, you know, like a science fiction thing.

You know, it's Colin confronted with a giant fly in Vengeance on Faros.

But what he's denying is the reality of actual reality.

Like the doctor tells him the truth.

And he says, I'm sorry, but that's not where I choose to live.

And that's basically what we are kind of facing.

[24:10]

The same cognitive dissonance we get with the turf walls that we get with, it doesn't really matter. climate change.

It doesn't matter what the topic is.

It's all horrific.

And it all meets the same brick wall.

So do we think this is going to lead into something?

Is this where we go?

Is this what the finale is about?

I don't know.

But I hope it didn't.

I just want it to exist.

You know what I mean?

I don't feel the need to have it all.

I don't want there to be a resolution.

I just want it to end where it ended.

I think that's nice.

It becomes a little vignette that's a thing that happens.

But I just wonder whether it's playing the sort of utopia role or...

Yeah, you know, or to a lesser extent, 73 yards, which introduces Roger App Willam, who has a pretty negligible role in the finale, but is at least mentioned.

But here I wonder, you know, you've got Mrs. Flood releasing him from prison.

Does that mean that we see him at the end in the reality war, which is the name of the final episode?

[25:13]

I want Mrs. Flood's character in this episode to be called Vinegar Tits.

Yeah, she is.

No, she doesn't need to.

No, no, she needs to be called something like, no, he calls her something sensible. like Joan.

I love the fact that all 4 episodes this season have all been slightly different.

They've all been very strong.

I give this a strong age with a highly recommendation that it's going to go up when I watch it again.

Seeing her family back.

You know, I just thought that was just lovely.

And both mums and all the mums really.

He's lying about collecting mums.

Yes, you've already got 2 what you do collect.

Russell and East frigging mums.

Love it.

Love it.

Yeah, I thought that was very cute.

I love the, you know, you know, that they were looking up shirtless peaks of him on Instagram and all of that sort of thing.

I did think that that was kind of cute.

And kind of unresolved.

And it was kind of what you wanted to see.

Like, you did want to see that whole situation working.

[26:13]

I think we were left with the feeling that it would be like that, but just seeing her biological mother in the kitchen with the other 2 was pretty great.

Hmm.

One little thing I just wanted to touch on too, which we probably otherwise won't cover is talking about exhausting.

And something that was not exhausting about this episode was the music.

Murray was seemed quite reeled in and providing what I would judge to be a suitable score for the episode as opposed to just something.

There's a lot of Ruby's theme, which I thought was really beautiful last year and I was happy to hear that back.

Yeah, but there's not... it's not that stuff.

It's the other stuff that Murray does, which where he intrudes on the action rather than supporting it, which I object to, but that's that's me.

I didn't hear that this time.

Did you hear the Blade Runner's stings?

To be the vangelist.

I didn't notice that.

Yeah, there were 3 of them.

And they come in, that marvellous scene with Conrad, working into the warehouse and the dummies have tulle veils over them exactly like JF Sebastian's apartment when you 1st see Chris under the...

[27:17]

Oh, there were some real little visual cues there.

And yeah, there's 3 chords that Vangelis uses throughout the Blade Runner score.

Oh, lots of lovely depth in this, yeah.

And I do have to say that I did like her hair, Richard.

I think it's.

It's very late, Joe Grant.

I'm making playing the Daleks.

So, you know, thumbs up for me.

And she even got stuff squirted all over her neck and face like planted.

Oh, yes.

And it was the right colour as well. did love that.

Please tell me I haven't been peed on.

I just thought it was really great.

That's very cute.

All right, that's all the time then that we have for this week.

I've got some things to plug.

The 2nd episode of the 2nd season of 500 year diary was released on Sunday.

And in it, we talked about the moon base.

Next week.

We'll be back with everyone's favourite giant green fibreglass lizards from Mars in the seeds of death, their 2nd appearance on the show.

[28:21]

You can keep up with us at Flightthrough Entirety.com on Blue Sky, and we're FDE podcast just about everywhere else.

And a new episode of the three-handed game dropped on Sunday.

Brendan tells me.

It's a new Avengers episode called Emily, and Emily is a car.

It is the very last thing they ever filmed and also, I won't spoil the powder if you want to listen to it, but we had a lovely time doing it.

And there's fascinating facts in it.

Yes.

And then, of course, your weekly dose of Star Trek nonsense with Joe Ford and Me is available at Untitled Star Trek project.

So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, remember that those people are exhausting.

So take good care of yourselves.

Thank you very much for listening and good night.

Good night.

Good night.

See you soon.

And good night.