WEBVTT NOTE This transcript was created on 2026-05-02 at 15:29:21 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.120 Hello, dear listener, and welcome back to the 2nd grade and 2 00:00:03.120 --> 00:00:04.679 bountiful Human Empire. 3 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:07.919 The only Doctor Who flash cast with something on its back. 4 00:00:07.980 --> 00:00:09.359 It's a mole, I think. 5 00:00:09.419 --> 00:00:10.500 Love the mole. 6 00:00:10.619 --> 00:00:12.179 I'm Nathan. 7 00:00:12.240 --> 00:00:13.380 I'm James. 8 00:00:13.500 --> 00:00:15.060 I'm Johnny. 9 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:16.559 And I'm Todd. 10 00:00:16.620 --> 00:00:22.019 Well, this week we're talking about the well, which is season two 11 00:00:22.019 --> 00:00:26.339 episode three. of the current era, written by Russell T. Davis and 12 00:00:26.339 --> 00:00:32.280 Sharma Angel Wallfall, and directed by Amanda Bracci, who directed 13 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:35.880 Lux last week and lots of other things, including an episode of 14 00:00:35.880 --> 00:00:36.899 Neighbours, apparently. 15 00:00:36.960 --> 00:00:37.979 She's from Melbourne. 16 00:00:38.039 --> 00:00:41.700 I've looked her up since our last episode. 17 00:00:42.539 --> 00:00:44.880 I'm sure she's glad about that. 18 00:00:44.939 --> 00:00:46.799 Yeah, yes, yes. 19 00:00:46.859 --> 00:00:51.899 So, um, let's talk the well, and I want to go generally around the 20 00:00:51.899 --> 00:00:54.719 table and talk about how we felt the episode went. 21 00:00:54.780 --> 00:00:58.020 Would you like to start us off, Johnny? 22 00:00:58.140 --> 00:00:59.579 Sure. 23 00:00:59.640 --> 00:01:03.420 I thought, I thought this was a perfectly acceptable episode of 24 00:01:03.420 --> 00:01:05.760 Doctor Who, a very traditional episode. 25 00:01:05.819 --> 00:01:09.420 Um, I got strong earth shock vibes from it throughout. 26 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:14.159 It was, uh, it was done really well in lots of different ways. 27 00:01:14.219 --> 00:01:16.200 It didn't quite all come together for me. 28 00:01:16.260 --> 00:01:20.700 Uh, as one might have hoped, but I, you know, still there's a lot 29 00:01:20.700 --> 00:01:21.120 to like in it. 30 00:01:21.180 --> 00:01:25.500 Look, I, I agree with Johnny, but I actually thought it was 31 00:01:25.500 --> 00:01:26.280 probably better than that. 32 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:28.379 It was solid. 33 00:01:28.439 --> 00:01:30.000 It was really terrifying. 34 00:01:30.060 --> 00:01:33.480 I mean, like it, I mean, you know, it's not as terrifying as 35 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:33.959 midnight. 36 00:01:34.019 --> 00:01:35.459 I don't think it can top midnight. 37 00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:38.340 Um, but it did something interesting in me with the creature. 38 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:42.480 Yeah, like, I mean, the idea that it's 400,000 years older and has 39 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:47.760 evolved and has become even more of a bastard is kind of, it's 40 00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:49.500 it's, yeah, they're like, that was horrifying. 41 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:54.359 You know, Nathan, sometimes I think sometimes you can judge an 42 00:01:54.359 --> 00:01:58.079 episode by how your partner reacts when they're watching it with 43 00:01:58.079 --> 00:02:01.500 you because they're not a Doctor Who fanatic, and Ash Watches all 44 00:02:01.500 --> 00:02:04.200 of these with me, and sometimes he'll be distracted on his phone 45 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:05.280 or I'll ask questions. 46 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:10.500 This time, Silence, we are just totally captivated throughout the 47 00:02:10.500 --> 00:02:11.400 entire thing. 48 00:02:11.460 --> 00:02:14.520 It was brilliant. 49 00:02:14.939 --> 00:02:17.580 I think it's a really strong episode. 50 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:18.539 I enjoyed it a lot. 51 00:02:18.599 --> 00:02:22.139 I've been pretty much on side with the episodes this season. 52 00:02:22.199 --> 00:02:26.879 And although there's nothing sort of stunningly new about this, and 53 00:02:26.879 --> 00:02:30.599 it does seem to be riffing on a whole heap of stuff from the 54 00:02:30.599 --> 00:02:33.659 previous Russell T. Davis era. 55 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:37.500 I think there's something to be said for doing the thing again. 56 00:02:37.560 --> 00:02:42.479 Um, but when the production kind of conditions are a bit 57 00:02:42.479 --> 00:02:42.960 different. 58 00:02:43.020 --> 00:02:47.939 And so I just sort of thought, you know, it's the same sort of 59 00:02:47.939 --> 00:02:50.699 world that we've seen since the Impossible Planet. 60 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:53.939 You know, the Impossible Planet was kind of our 1st new series 61 00:02:53.939 --> 00:02:57.900 space base, and that's what space bases look like now. 62 00:02:58.020 --> 00:03:00.599 This I just thought looked incredible. 63 00:03:00.659 --> 00:03:03.599 These huge spaces, these beautiful sets. 64 00:03:03.719 --> 00:03:07.560 It managed to be atmospheric without turning the lights off and so 65 00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:09.120 everything was supervisible. 66 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:14.699 Um, and, you know, like I just thought it was so confidently and 67 00:03:14.699 --> 00:03:15.780 so well done. 68 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:20.159 And like Todd said, I thought it was really properly scary. 69 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:24.360 And even watching it the 2nd time, that 1st jump scare, just 70 00:03:24.360 --> 00:03:25.919 absolutely. 71 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:30.360 Like, I leapt again, even though I think I was pretty sure it was 72 00:03:30.360 --> 00:03:30.960 coming. 73 00:03:31.020 --> 00:03:34.199 So, so it worked for me perfectly. 74 00:03:34.259 --> 00:03:37.860 So I think I'm probably kind of in Todd's corner here. 75 00:03:37.919 --> 00:03:41.580 Well, I might be the Grinch that stole the well here. 76 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:45.479 Like, I feel like I might be the one who, who, but I can, I can 77 00:03:45.479 --> 00:03:46.020 concur. 78 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:47.039 It does look great. 79 00:03:47.099 --> 00:03:50.699 And I was thinking about how it's got a lot of traditional Doctor 80 00:03:50.699 --> 00:03:51.360 Who elements. 81 00:03:51.419 --> 00:03:52.800 It's got the quarry. 82 00:03:52.860 --> 00:03:56.159 It's got the big long corridor, but people have got to run up and 83 00:03:56.159 --> 00:04:00.840 down and it's got the big circular centrepiece, that arena feel 84 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:02.879 for where most of it happens. 85 00:04:02.939 --> 00:04:08.159 And when I was watching unleash afterwards, and they showed some 86 00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:11.520 of the raw footage from within side that when they were shooting 87 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:15.240 the stunts of the people leaping over on those wires. 88 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:19.560 You could see how much work the colour grading had done to the 89 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:23.220 whole episode and how it had really added a whole lot of 90 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:26.040 atmosphere to everything because actually just looking at it, it 91 00:04:26.040 --> 00:04:26.759 didn't look that great. 92 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:30.540 But on the episode they had managed to really pull off a whole 93 00:04:30.540 --> 00:04:36.480 consistent cold, uh, spooky kind of feel to the whole thing. 94 00:04:36.540 --> 00:04:40.800 I mean, because midnight, I think, benefits from that, those, you 95 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.399 know, the visuals of outside, which are bluer, I think. 96 00:04:44.459 --> 00:04:48.120 But, you know, the planet that's made of diamonds, you know, and 97 00:04:48.120 --> 00:04:51.360 we've gone on from there, but everything is so black. 98 00:04:51.420 --> 00:04:55.500 Like everything is so black and you call that aquarium, obvious 99 00:04:55.500 --> 00:04:58.379 it's a quarry, but like a quarry, I don't think has ever looked 100 00:04:58.379 --> 00:05:01.259 quite as good as that in Doctor Who. 101 00:05:01.379 --> 00:05:03.120 I agree with you. 102 00:05:03.180 --> 00:05:06.540 Those outside visuals of the base in the long distance and just 103 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:08.339 looking up at the stars, I thought was stunning. 104 00:05:08.399 --> 00:05:10.560 I think it's partly the direction too. 105 00:05:10.620 --> 00:05:15.120 I just think it's very solidly directed. which is a great trip 106 00:05:15.120 --> 00:05:19.740 last week and and and here the performances and what she had 107 00:05:19.740 --> 00:05:22.620 shooty doing and the guest stars. 108 00:05:22.680 --> 00:05:25.980 I mean, obviously there's a writing, but, you know, I think it was 109 00:05:25.980 --> 00:05:29.279 a great 12 punch for Amanda as the director. 110 00:05:29.339 --> 00:05:32.399 I do want to spend some time later talking about the performances 111 00:05:32.399 --> 00:05:37.259 because I think, you know, this is an episode with that relies 112 00:05:37.259 --> 00:05:41.160 very, very heavily on the quality of the performances. 113 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:43.980 Have you watched Unleashed yet? 114 00:05:44.040 --> 00:05:45.120 I haven't. 115 00:05:45.180 --> 00:05:45.420 No. 116 00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:49.319 No, um, so, so, in a leash, they talked about how the concept for 117 00:05:49.319 --> 00:05:54.060 this episode was, was brought to Russell, and everything 118 00:05:54.060 --> 00:05:58.019 everything was there, basically, a poisonous planet, you know 119 00:05:58.019 --> 00:06:02.879 something lurking to kill people, and he suggested bringing the 120 00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:03.540 monster back. 121 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:05.759 So it was originally not going to be the monster. 122 00:06:05.819 --> 00:06:06.959 It was going to be another monster. 123 00:06:07.019 --> 00:06:12.180 And so he just went, oh, I could do a sequel to this story. 124 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.379 And then it just adds so much depth to it. 125 00:06:16.439 --> 00:06:18.420 Oh, and the fear on Chuti's face. 126 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:18.779 Sorry. 127 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:20.759 I really enjoyed this episode. 128 00:06:20.819 --> 00:06:25.379 Yeah, so I mean, again, I think we'll talk about why exactly we've 129 00:06:25.379 --> 00:06:29.459 chosen to make this a sequel to Midnight, where it doesn't seem to 130 00:06:29.459 --> 00:06:30.959 need to have been that. 131 00:06:31.019 --> 00:06:34.139 Had other people been spoiled, though? 132 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:38.759 I had a vague sense that this was going to be a sequel to 133 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:39.420 midnight. 134 00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.139 I can't remember where I read it, and I don't seek out Doctor Who 135 00:06:43.139 --> 00:06:44.639 fan theory videos or anything like that. 136 00:06:44.699 --> 00:06:47.579 But somehow I got the sense that it was going to be a sequel to 137 00:06:47.579 --> 00:06:48.000 midnight. 138 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:51.420 And I remember kind of going, why are we talking about galvanic 139 00:06:51.420 --> 00:06:54.959 radiation when x tonic radiation is right there? 140 00:06:55.019 --> 00:06:57.899 And there it was. 141 00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:59.879 I had no idea. 142 00:06:59.879 --> 00:07:02.220 That it was going to be a sequel at all. 143 00:07:02.339 --> 00:07:06.480 And so, you know, as you were saying, like they were saying, girl 144 00:07:06.480 --> 00:07:10.319 vanic, and then when it all just started to turn to, you know 145 00:07:10.319 --> 00:07:14.759 extonic and, you know, diamonds and you, the soundscape just 146 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.060 started to go and shoot his look and I'm just they're going, 0 my 147 00:07:18.060 --> 00:07:18.959 goodness, they're not doing this. 148 00:07:19.019 --> 00:07:20.519 They're not doing it. they are doing this. 149 00:07:20.579 --> 00:07:24.240 This is just a wonderful captured moment. 150 00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:27.600 And I can see why Russell would have, you know, seized on that 151 00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:29.759 because I think it works really, really well. 152 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:35.220 Um, I love the direction. of that slow realisation. 153 00:07:35.279 --> 00:07:38.160 It's just seeded through the entire episode. 154 00:07:38.279 --> 00:07:42.720 But the moment I had an inkling in the back of my head was when 155 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:48.959 Alice does that strange look, which is Sky's eye dart movement 156 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:51.240 from midnight. 157 00:07:51.300 --> 00:07:53.639 I was like, why does that look so familiar? 158 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:55.920 I just had chills down my spine. 159 00:07:55.980 --> 00:08:01.079 But didn't didn't clock until just before that reveal. 160 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:02.519 I was like, oh, oh, okay. 161 00:08:03.540 --> 00:08:08.399 Yeah, I wasn't spoiled, but it is when they said the word ex-tonic 162 00:08:08.399 --> 00:08:09.480 I thought, oh, yeah, here we are. 163 00:08:09.540 --> 00:08:13.379 And I thought, I've got to admit that I would, I didn't have that 164 00:08:13.379 --> 00:08:16.740 vanish thrill of going, oh, we're back here again. 165 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:21.120 He's a, he's the, he's the pteroreptils back for another runner. 166 00:08:21.120 --> 00:08:23.399 No, I didn't got to feel like that. 167 00:08:23.459 --> 00:08:27.480 I, I, and I did kind of think, oh, this is why we've been taking 168 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:28.139 it so slowly. 169 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.319 Like, I think this is why the pace in that middle section has been 170 00:08:31.319 --> 00:08:36.659 so so deliberate and so set up in that kind of way. 171 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:42.299 Um, I did like, I think they've made the right choice to show a 172 00:08:42.299 --> 00:08:46.200 little bit more of it than they did during midnight. 173 00:08:46.259 --> 00:08:49.740 I think it would have been unsatisfying to not show anything and 174 00:08:49.740 --> 00:08:54.419 they chose really smartly to just show those little bits of the 175 00:08:54.419 --> 00:08:57.659 jump scares, those things you can't quite see. 176 00:08:57.720 --> 00:09:00.779 And so when when they happen, you kind of, the 1st thing that 177 00:09:00.779 --> 00:09:01.080 happened. 178 00:09:01.139 --> 00:09:03.240 I didn't know whether Belinda had imagined it or not. 179 00:09:03.299 --> 00:09:07.740 And then you sort of see just, and even later in the episode 180 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:10.980 there's just a few kind of reverse shots where it's kind of just 181 00:09:10.980 --> 00:09:15.059 creeping around in the, in the shadows and there, that's, I think 182 00:09:15.059 --> 00:09:15.659 that was smart. 183 00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:17.519 That was a good thing. that a good thing to do. 184 00:09:17.580 --> 00:09:20.039 Johnny, I just find it freaky. 185 00:09:20.100 --> 00:09:22.919 You know, and even watching it the 2nd time, I didn't even try to 186 00:09:22.919 --> 00:09:24.659 pause it because I just didn't want to know. 187 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:25.919 Yeah. 188 00:09:25.919 --> 00:09:27.299 I did try. 189 00:09:30.299 --> 00:09:32.039 I found it. 190 00:09:32.159 --> 00:09:33.539 I can't say I found it scary. 191 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.139 I can't say I found it edge of my seat kind of stuff. 192 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.759 And actually, I was thinking a little bit back to Lux last week 193 00:09:41.759 --> 00:09:47.639 and how those group of barkers on the chairs that Russell had 194 00:09:47.639 --> 00:09:52.259 given us to say, to show us how fans watch and read Doctor Who, and 195 00:09:52.259 --> 00:09:55.440 how, you know, how literate we've all become. 196 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.860 You know, they say things like, you know, oh, we're 30 minutes 197 00:09:58.860 --> 00:09:59.220 in. 198 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.840 Youve got to go back and start the 3rd act. 199 00:10:00.899 --> 00:10:03.840 You know, you've already heard what's going to happen here. 200 00:10:03.899 --> 00:10:09.299 And I felt a little bit of, I can sort of see the workings a 201 00:10:09.299 --> 00:10:10.740 little bit too clearly in this. 202 00:10:10.799 --> 00:10:12.360 And think back to midnight. 203 00:10:12.419 --> 00:10:15.840 I just could not, you know, back then we were on. 204 00:10:15.899 --> 00:10:19.379 I genuinely didn't know where that episode was heading at any 205 00:10:19.379 --> 00:10:23.759 stage in its in its duration. 206 00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:28.559 Whereas this, I felt, I think the reason why I wasn't entirely 207 00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:32.639 sucked into this world and completely engrossed by it was I could 208 00:10:32.639 --> 00:10:34.139 sort of see the script working. 209 00:10:34.259 --> 00:10:37.019 Um, which is not say the script is bad. 210 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:38.279 It's not, it's really good. 211 00:10:38.340 --> 00:10:41.340 And the direction is really good as you say, but I just, I could 212 00:10:41.340 --> 00:10:42.960 see, I could read it a bit clearly, I think. 213 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:48.720 For me, I think that it's this era's iteration of this thing, and 214 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:52.620 I think that that's something that we need to do every so often, do 215 00:10:52.620 --> 00:10:53.279 you know what I mean? 216 00:10:53.340 --> 00:10:58.019 And so I don't think this is as inventive as the source material. 217 00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:01.919 But what I do think is that it's a really good kind of tone 218 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:02.700 piece. 219 00:11:02.700 --> 00:11:08.220 And given that the traditional science fiction episodes of this 220 00:11:08.220 --> 00:11:15.480 era have been the Starbeast and Space Babies and the robot 221 00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.960 revolution, You know, I think that they were probably Doctor Who 222 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:23.700 fans who are gagging for something just a little bit more Trad, and 223 00:11:23.700 --> 00:11:25.500 I'm glad that they got it. 224 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:29.279 Not that I didn't like those other 3 episodes I just mentioned 225 00:11:29.279 --> 00:11:31.080 because I did. 226 00:11:31.259 --> 00:11:34.259 But it was kind of nice to say, all right, well, Doctor Who can 227 00:11:34.259 --> 00:11:39.059 still do its old standards and it can just do it incredibly well. 228 00:11:39.059 --> 00:11:43.740 And just even wandering through the, the quarters, the crew 229 00:11:43.740 --> 00:11:47.879 quarters and stuff, you know, just the details of those sets, the 230 00:11:47.879 --> 00:11:50.759 way that they've been dressed, all of the stuff, the junk 231 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:55.259 everywhere, the evidence of, um, you know, the, the fight and the 232 00:11:55.259 --> 00:11:58.799 deterioration and all of that sort of thing, crew quarters that 233 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.799 looked really nothing like, you think about the impossible planet 234 00:12:01.799 --> 00:12:01.919 right? 235 00:12:01.980 --> 00:12:04.320 right And how impressed we were by it. 236 00:12:04.379 --> 00:12:07.080 And now you go back there and you think, there are a lot of 237 00:12:07.080 --> 00:12:08.580 painted balsa wood flats. 238 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:14.940 You know, like, but you don't get that sense here. 239 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:19.139 And I think, I think because TV is a visual medium and because 240 00:12:19.139 --> 00:12:22.799 Doctor Who is about putting strange things on TV, I'm actually 241 00:12:22.799 --> 00:12:26.340 okay with this, like, I don't think it's as good as midnight, but 242 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:29.460 I think nearly nothing in Doctor Who is as good as midnight. 243 00:12:29.519 --> 00:12:35.159 And and I just think this is so confidently done, just so kind of 244 00:12:35.159 --> 00:12:37.379 engaging and exciting. 245 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:40.919 And I do think the one thing it does, that scene in the middle 246 00:12:40.919 --> 00:12:44.519 where just 5 people get killed, where it's just like, oh, we're 247 00:12:44.519 --> 00:12:47.639 killing 5 characters right now and it's just like, and now we're 248 00:12:47.639 --> 00:12:48.179 surrounded. 249 00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:50.940 Now we're in the same situation, but now we're surrounded in dead 250 00:12:50.940 --> 00:12:51.899 bodies. 251 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.919 And I just think that is really, really something extraordinary. 252 00:12:55.980 --> 00:12:57.419 I agree. 253 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:00.240 It's something, you know, it's not it's not as unique as Midnight 254 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:05.039 but it's a good solid suspense. horror thriller episode. 255 00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:09.360 Like some of some of it, like, and the death, the death is... were 256 00:13:09.360 --> 00:13:10.679 you impressed by the death Tod? 257 00:13:10.740 --> 00:13:12.120 Yes, James. 258 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:14.279 Like a death. 259 00:13:14.340 --> 00:13:15.000 And you know what? 260 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:15.899 Also, I was impressed. 261 00:13:15.960 --> 00:13:18.840 It's that strange, sinister way you said that, Todd. 262 00:13:18.899 --> 00:13:21.840 Yeah, watch out. 263 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:28.679 Um, I was also impressed by the um, the TARDIS costume cabinet 264 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:32.700 because I rid her of the fact that we, the TARDIS managed to sense 265 00:13:32.700 --> 00:13:38.100 the environment and give them the exactly right ace suits to match 266 00:13:38.100 --> 00:13:42.179 those helmets so we could get Belinda and the doctor screaming as 267 00:13:42.179 --> 00:13:43.679 they were plummeting towards the planet. 268 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:44.340 I loved that. 269 00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:48.659 I know some people won't, but I just like the fact that the 270 00:13:48.659 --> 00:13:51.419 costume cabinets there and the TARDIS can just sense what we 271 00:13:51.419 --> 00:13:51.659 need. 272 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:53.399 It's been upgraded. 273 00:13:53.460 --> 00:13:56.039 It's the new psychic paper, I think. 274 00:13:56.100 --> 00:13:56.879 Do you know what I mean? 275 00:13:56.940 --> 00:13:59.820 It's just like, and now we'll go in this door and out that door. 276 00:13:59.879 --> 00:14:02.220 We'll have some Britney, and we're going to be dressed for the 277 00:14:02.220 --> 00:14:05.399 episode, and it doesn't actually matter, and we did it last week 278 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:06.659 and we're doing it this week. 279 00:14:06.720 --> 00:14:12.779 And just as we've said before, having a doctor who dresses for the 280 00:14:12.779 --> 00:14:14.759 adventure is so great. 281 00:14:14.820 --> 00:14:17.879 It's so, you know, it's like having heart and all back. 282 00:14:17.940 --> 00:14:19.259 It's just terrific. 283 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:20.460 I love it. so much. 284 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:23.759 It's one of my favourite things. where the budget went. 285 00:14:23.820 --> 00:14:25.379 Yeah, yeah. 286 00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:25.980 Well, yeah. 287 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:26.519 Yeah. 288 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:30.179 So why are we making it a sequel to midnight? 289 00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:33.419 I mean, given the mid 90s, one of the best Doctor Who episodes 290 00:14:33.419 --> 00:14:39.539 ever, and it's only going to kind of invite sort of comparisons. 291 00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:43.379 Um, what do you think the reason for it was? 292 00:14:44.340 --> 00:14:46.559 It's never resolved. 293 00:14:46.679 --> 00:14:49.080 You know, that thing is still alive. 294 00:14:49.799 --> 00:14:51.179 Yeah? 295 00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:54.299 Like, it's there on that planet. they don't kill it. 296 00:14:54.360 --> 00:14:56.279 They just kill Skye. 297 00:14:56.340 --> 00:14:58.860 So like that's always been a loose thread to pull. 298 00:14:58.919 --> 00:15:03.059 But I think you also run the risk of saying, if you didn't have 299 00:15:03.059 --> 00:15:07.080 that in there, You might run into the criticism of, well, yes, they 300 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:10.440 tried to do another midnight, like with a similar creature and it 301 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:11.100 wasn't as good. 302 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:15.480 But by by doing this and tying it in with it and allowing the 303 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:20.759 creature to evolve after 400,000 years, I think is actually very 304 00:15:20.759 --> 00:15:23.940 clever and the strengthens the episode for me. 305 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.779 I mean, I think this era of the show has a real desire to bring 306 00:15:30.779 --> 00:15:34.080 back elements from the past and to bring back old enemies, and it 307 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:37.620 has done this, and old friends and allies, and it is, it is really 308 00:15:37.620 --> 00:15:42.600 infused in this era much more than it is in, in other parts of 309 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:44.039 modern Doctor Who. 310 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:47.100 And I'm I'm fine. 311 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:48.000 I'm fine with that. 312 00:15:48.059 --> 00:15:53.460 But I think that it's difficult to, it's difficult to watch this 313 00:15:53.460 --> 00:15:56.820 and not think about all the fantastic things that midnight managed 314 00:15:56.820 --> 00:15:57.299 to do. 315 00:15:57.419 --> 00:16:01.679 And one of the reasons, one of the reasons I think I didn't really 316 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:05.700 buy into this, I know we want to talk about the characters a bit 317 00:16:05.700 --> 00:16:12.240 but in midnight, that that creature brought out the worst in those 318 00:16:12.240 --> 00:16:17.820 supporting characters and really, it really made you see how he 319 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:21.120 could have this visceral effect on people who felt like us, the 320 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:24.179 mum, the dad, the kid, that professor, you know, all that. 321 00:16:24.240 --> 00:16:27.059 And so it really transformed those people around it. 322 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:31.679 And here I just didn't really connect with any of the. 323 00:16:31.740 --> 00:16:34.379 I mean, Russell said on Instagram that he was thinking about 324 00:16:34.379 --> 00:16:37.620 calling this episode the 13 instead of the well-meaning the 13 325 00:16:37.620 --> 00:16:38.700 people who dropped that. 326 00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:42.000 I'm really glad he didn't because actually I haven't I've met 327 00:16:42.000 --> 00:16:43.500 hardly any of those 13. 328 00:16:43.679 --> 00:16:46.139 Do you remember last week they were talking about characters who 329 00:16:46.139 --> 00:16:46.980 didn't have surnames? 330 00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.279 And this week we get a set of characters who don't even have 1st 331 00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:53.700 names who are true for 7 and super 8 and things. 332 00:16:53.820 --> 00:16:58.500 And so for me, I couldn't really, this is one of those things I 333 00:16:58.500 --> 00:17:00.600 think midnight does really well. 334 00:17:00.659 --> 00:17:04.140 All its elements combine in a kind of plot-like way, which is 335 00:17:04.140 --> 00:17:04.500 really cool. 336 00:17:04.619 --> 00:17:08.640 I think midnight is doing something quite different, and in 337 00:17:08.640 --> 00:17:10.859 midnight, the villains are the people. 338 00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:13.680 And so it's people under pressure. 339 00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:16.559 And, you know, you've got that disgusting family beef and 340 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:17.160 Valerie. 341 00:17:17.220 --> 00:17:17.819 And what's her name? 342 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:19.440 Val or something I can't remember. 343 00:17:19.500 --> 00:17:24.720 You know, like Colin Morgan's parents who are just horrible daily 344 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.900 mail readers, you know, who, you know, the moment they think 345 00:17:27.900 --> 00:17:30.779 there's a refugee somewhere nearby, they're putting people out the 346 00:17:30.779 --> 00:17:31.799 airlock, you know. 347 00:17:31.859 --> 00:17:36.660 And, and, and so that's a story all about that, about people under 348 00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:39.059 pressure turning on one another and being evil. 349 00:17:39.059 --> 00:17:44.220 And the, the evil of the, the monster is, is kind of uh, to the 350 00:17:44.220 --> 00:17:44.640 side. 351 00:17:44.700 --> 00:17:48.000 The monster is inventive and interesting, but mostly it operates 352 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:48.839 through sky. 353 00:17:48.900 --> 00:17:50.579 Here that doesn't happen at all. 354 00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:54.059 We don't have it possess a person and we don't have it really 355 00:17:54.059 --> 00:17:57.240 inspiring people to be evil except that, you know, people are 356 00:17:57.240 --> 00:17:58.380 scared or whatever. 357 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:01.680 So it's not interrogating those characters in any way. 358 00:18:01.740 --> 00:18:04.980 And so I think it is doing something quite quite different, which 359 00:18:04.980 --> 00:18:07.680 is why it's a little bit surprising that they go for it. 360 00:18:07.740 --> 00:18:11.579 I suspect that it's giving the doctor a relationship with it. 361 00:18:11.819 --> 00:18:17.940 And so the doctor gets to react to it at the very end when he goes 362 00:18:17.940 --> 00:18:21.000 up to Alice and looks her in the face, but he's talking to the 363 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:24.180 creature and he hears the creature talking to him. 364 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:29.099 And I think, you know, that's one of Shooty's best moments as the 365 00:18:29.099 --> 00:18:29.460 doctor. 366 00:18:29.519 --> 00:18:31.200 I think that's an amazing performance. 367 00:18:31.259 --> 00:18:33.660 And I think that's why it's there. 368 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:38.700 I thought that was very powerful and I certainly think that and I 369 00:18:38.700 --> 00:18:41.400 concur with you, that his performance in this episode and 370 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:45.839 certainly those moments and his relationship, both with Alice and 371 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:49.259 with Shire, were really well done. 372 00:18:49.319 --> 00:18:52.859 You know, I've been a bit critical of him being a one, two, 3 note 373 00:18:52.859 --> 00:18:57.359 sort of actor, but this week really, he shined through very much 374 00:18:57.359 --> 00:18:58.019 so. 375 00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:04.619 I love that that shot, like that that expression on his face. is 376 00:19:04.619 --> 00:19:10.559 so prolonged and so full of fear and harks back to tenants, kind 377 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:17.220 of fixated, um, stare as he's starting to be like overtaken and 378 00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:20.339 and, and you, you kind of going, oh, is it actually going to take 379 00:19:20.339 --> 00:19:20.880 him now? 380 00:19:20.940 --> 00:19:22.559 Has he been possessed? 381 00:19:22.619 --> 00:19:24.779 Is it going back to its old playbook? 382 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:27.480 And is it going to actually take him? 383 00:19:27.539 --> 00:19:33.000 Um, And it's his relationship with it is one of visceral hatred. 384 00:19:33.059 --> 00:19:36.299 You know, and this is something, again, in this era, there are 385 00:19:36.299 --> 00:19:38.700 really clear lines about who's good and who's bad. 386 00:19:38.819 --> 00:19:43.019 And this episode, he calls the thing vile. 387 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:45.240 He calls it a stone cold murderer. 388 00:19:45.299 --> 00:19:49.980 And the same way that Alan in episode one is just that he's just a 389 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:52.920 bad egg, you know, like, and the same way that the gods of the 390 00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:54.420 pantheon are just bad. 391 00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.319 They're just, there's not the faulty technology like in Moffat 392 00:19:58.319 --> 00:19:59.460 story would be, you know. 393 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:02.759 It's not even that tenony thing of, oh, I've got to give it a 394 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:03.000 chance. 395 00:20:03.059 --> 00:20:05.819 I've got to hug it 1st and see if it really wants to die. 396 00:20:05.880 --> 00:20:07.740 No, it's it's just this thing. 397 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:11.759 These things are just, they're really clear moral. 398 00:20:11.819 --> 00:20:15.240 After the Chimolera, it's actually a really interesting reaction. 399 00:20:15.299 --> 00:20:18.960 There's a really clear moral line here about what's right and 400 00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.380 what's wrong. 401 00:20:19.500 --> 00:20:24.359 Yeah, although, you know, his 1st sort of regular episode has the 402 00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:28.859 snot monster turning out to have been another victim all along. 403 00:20:28.920 --> 00:20:33.180 So that's because capitalism is what's evil about, right? 404 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:36.420 Capitalism is always the secret villa, I think. 405 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:38.220 Unless you... 406 00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:44.519 I want to talk also about the incredible performance by Rose 407 00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:48.059 Ailing Ellis, who I had heard of before. 408 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:50.460 A friend of mine at work really wanted her to be the next 409 00:20:50.460 --> 00:20:51.900 companion. 410 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:53.099 So I had heard of her. 411 00:20:53.099 --> 00:20:57.660 And I just think she is absolutely magnificent. 412 00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.480 Just incredible, absolutely brilliant. 413 00:21:00.539 --> 00:21:09.180 So she worked, um, like, with the script writers to improve the 414 00:21:09.180 --> 00:21:15.180 inclusiveness and language and, and, and how, like how the 415 00:21:15.180 --> 00:21:19.200 characters reacted to her and how she reacted to the characters to 416 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.019 make it more believable, um, from the point of view of the deaf 417 00:21:22.019 --> 00:21:22.259 person. 418 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:26.640 Well, she was just absolutely stunning, the whole performance, and 419 00:21:26.640 --> 00:21:31.140 you know, the moments, like when people turned dead backs on her 420 00:21:31.140 --> 00:21:34.799 and what she could just convey the emotions in her voice and her 421 00:21:34.799 --> 00:21:39.180 look, and you just wanted her, that character to be able to 422 00:21:39.180 --> 00:21:42.000 survive and go back to her daughter so, so much. 423 00:21:42.059 --> 00:21:45.660 I was just stunned by her performance. 424 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.220 I just thought it was utterly compelling. 425 00:21:47.339 --> 00:21:52.440 And I think it's a great performance matched by a great character 426 00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:56.759 creation, someone who's keeping secrets, but we're still 427 00:21:56.759 --> 00:21:59.579 sympathetic with them, even though they haven't told us the full 428 00:21:59.579 --> 00:21:59.880 truth. 429 00:22:00.000 --> 00:22:03.960 You know, and the truth gradually emerges and they're a flawed 430 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:07.259 character and we may not always, sometimes we support what she's 431 00:22:07.259 --> 00:22:07.500 doing. 432 00:22:07.559 --> 00:22:11.519 Sometimes we don't, but that's a really great central character. 433 00:22:11.579 --> 00:22:16.500 But can we say the same for the rest of the characters in thing? 434 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:21.539 You know, like I, for Shire and for Salamar. 435 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:24.900 They're the sort of archetypes that really don't have much behind 436 00:22:24.900 --> 00:22:25.319 them. 437 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:31.500 So I, I love that Rose's character is literally at the centre of 438 00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:35.039 this episode, but there's not, there's not the same depth applied 439 00:22:35.039 --> 00:22:35.759 to everyone else. 440 00:22:35.819 --> 00:22:39.000 There's not because there's so many of them, but I actually think 441 00:22:39.000 --> 00:22:42.779 Shia as the commander was utterly brilliant, and I thought her 442 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:48.720 performance was as good as, as Rose, and you could so easily have 443 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.539 had her not trusting the doctor and going down that road. 444 00:22:51.660 --> 00:22:54.180 Obviously, you always have the 2nd in command that's going to 445 00:22:54.180 --> 00:22:56.940 cause problems and I was okay with that. 446 00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:00.240 And then we had Mo as well and we had, you know, a few of the 447 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:00.900 others around there. 448 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:05.039 But that was not a problem for me because Shire was so well drawn 449 00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:05.400 I thought. 450 00:23:05.519 --> 00:23:09.359 I think that the tendency to have a reduced supporting cast in a 451 00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:11.640 45 minute Doctor Who episode isn't a bad one. 452 00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:15.960 And in the chipmal era, we often had a very small sort of 453 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:19.319 supporting cast, here having a supporting cast, but with a lot of 454 00:23:19.319 --> 00:23:23.700 bit players, all of whom get a, you know, line or 2 of dialogue 455 00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.759 just makes the thing seem bigger and maybe a bit more expensive. 456 00:23:26.819 --> 00:23:32.460 I want to shout out to Gaz Chaudhry, who played Kai, who was the 457 00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:38.039 soldier with the shaved head, who followed along with Cassio, you 458 00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:45.240 know, 2nded Cassio's red code declaration, who wears a prosthetic 459 00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.259 and I didn't realise all the way through the 1st watching, but he 460 00:23:49.259 --> 00:23:54.119 has a prosthetic, and he was a former Paralympian playing 461 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:58.380 wheelchair basketball, who has turned to acting. 462 00:23:58.440 --> 00:24:00.480 And I thought he was really great. 463 00:24:00.539 --> 00:24:04.259 I thought he was kind of cute and just kind of compelling to 464 00:24:04.259 --> 00:24:04.619 watch. 465 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:07.799 But I was kind of surprised because watching it the 2nd time 466 00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:10.799 through after I knew it was very clear, but I didn't actually pick 467 00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:11.819 up on it the 1st time. 468 00:24:11.940 --> 00:24:13.140 He was great. 469 00:24:13.200 --> 00:24:18.420 And I think those call 4 who were part of the 13 were really 470 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:18.660 good. 471 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:23.339 And I think having Belinda there, and again, Ash commented how 472 00:24:23.339 --> 00:24:28.559 wonderful she was, and I just thought, just her empathy and 473 00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:32.039 bonding with all those different characters, and then the whole 474 00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.000 thing about, well, what's happened to the earth and humans, tying 475 00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:38.880 all that in around all of that, just worked so well. 476 00:24:38.940 --> 00:24:44.220 I mean, I cannot, um, say enough, how good she is in the role as 477 00:24:44.220 --> 00:24:48.779 Belinda and that really, really helps, you know, support Shooty 478 00:24:48.779 --> 00:24:50.339 and the whole production. 479 00:24:50.400 --> 00:24:52.079 Yeah, she's outstanding. 480 00:24:52.140 --> 00:24:57.000 I mean, she, she has this really great presence without drawing 481 00:24:57.000 --> 00:25:01.500 attention to herself in any way, and yet when she steps into a 482 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:03.720 scene, you can't seem to take your eyes off her. 483 00:25:03.779 --> 00:25:07.740 So she's got that gift of kind of being an ensemble member and 484 00:25:07.740 --> 00:25:10.859 them being the lead in a scene at any one time. 485 00:25:10.920 --> 00:25:16.980 Um, And I think, you know, if um, she didn't have quite as much 486 00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:19.319 humour to bring to this episode because obviously it's got a 487 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:21.119 different tone to it this episode. 488 00:25:21.180 --> 00:25:22.799 But in the previous stuff. 489 00:25:22.859 --> 00:25:27.660 I've loved her slightly Barbie relationship with the doctor and 490 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:31.619 that she really is sort of, she is really sort of bewildered by 491 00:25:31.619 --> 00:25:34.980 why anyone would be impressed by him. 492 00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.279 Like, it's not like, we've seen other people go, well, I'm not 493 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:39.539 particularly impressed by you, doctors. 494 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:43.319 She's kind of trying to work out what it is about him, that anyone 495 00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:45.720 would sort of would sort of gravitate to him for. 496 00:25:45.779 --> 00:25:49.500 I think the thing of having the both of them discover at the same 497 00:25:49.500 --> 00:25:53.099 time that there are no more humans and no more earth is a good 498 00:25:53.099 --> 00:25:57.900 call as well. because we've had lots of, you know, the doctor 499 00:25:57.900 --> 00:26:01.140 finds out, I think, and conceals it in order to kind of preserve 500 00:26:01.140 --> 00:26:04.799 the companion's feelings and stuff, and these maintains her agency 501 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:07.380 and maintains her being on an equal level with him. 502 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:09.299 They've both found it out at the same time. 503 00:26:09.299 --> 00:26:12.359 And neither one of them is super freaking out about it more than 504 00:26:12.359 --> 00:26:12.720 the other. 505 00:26:12.779 --> 00:26:13.799 I thought that was really good. 506 00:26:13.859 --> 00:26:19.019 I do want to just wind up, I think, by just talking about the end 507 00:26:19.019 --> 00:26:19.500 though. 508 00:26:19.559 --> 00:26:21.720 I had a little moment. 509 00:26:21.900 --> 00:26:27.180 So Trooper 79 and Alice go up in the lift. 510 00:26:27.420 --> 00:26:30.839 But the lift indicates there are 4 people on it. 511 00:26:30.900 --> 00:26:34.380 And then there are 4 people left alive downstairs. 512 00:26:34.380 --> 00:26:39.000 And for a 2nd I thought that because everyone else was so 513 00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:43.619 confident that they didn't have the thing behind them, that 514 00:26:43.619 --> 00:26:48.420 Belinda just concluded that she must have it behind her, but that 515 00:26:48.420 --> 00:26:49.920 it wasn't there at all. 516 00:26:49.980 --> 00:26:55.559 And so her being shot and Shia throwing herself down the well was 517 00:26:55.559 --> 00:27:00.720 all not necessary and kind of bad. 518 00:27:00.779 --> 00:27:03.599 And I had a chat with Brendan about this and Brendan had decided 519 00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:04.619 no, there were 2 creatures. 520 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.319 And I said, well, there's literally no hint of that in the text, so 521 00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:07.740 why? 522 00:27:07.859 --> 00:27:08.819 We even going there. 523 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:10.859 Except when I rewatched. 524 00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:15.539 Belinda says that she can hear the whispering, and there is just 525 00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:20.640 the hint of whispering, um, in the on the soundtrack. 526 00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:23.640 Now, that could be German expressionist whispering that is just 527 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:26.400 representing what she thinks she hears. 528 00:27:26.640 --> 00:27:32.880 But I think perhaps there's enough possible ambiguity there. 529 00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:37.740 In any case, what happens is that the creature escapes, which is a 530 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:38.400 pretty great ending. 531 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:43.079 I think the strong implication is that the creature escapes. 532 00:27:43.140 --> 00:27:46.980 I actually felt better about it when I thought, oh, maybe there's 533 00:27:46.980 --> 00:27:47.640 a 2nd creature. 534 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:51.839 I actually felt that I felt it was a little too familiar, that 535 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:54.240 ending, and then I thought, oh, hang on, maybe maybe there's 536 00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:56.339 another one I felt, but I... 537 00:27:56.460 --> 00:28:00.119 But can I say it's an unusual episode where the problem is solved 538 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:02.460 by the very precise shooting of a companion? 539 00:28:04.200 --> 00:28:08.220 That's, and that is, that is something else I think that crept in 540 00:28:08.220 --> 00:28:09.779 about the doctor. 541 00:28:09.839 --> 00:28:12.900 The doctor isn't the one to solve the problem at the end. 542 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:16.140 I always feel a bit funny about those episodes. 543 00:28:16.259 --> 00:28:18.240 There's plenty of stories that end like that and there's plenty of 544 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:21.180 stories I feel completely fine about it, but there's always a 545 00:28:21.180 --> 00:28:25.019 moment where I think, ah, could we have made this a little bit. 546 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.220 A little bit better. 547 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:31.200 I guess the ending, like the shooting of the companion and then, is 548 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.000 there one creature is there two? 549 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:35.220 I did like sort of the cliffhanger right at the end. 550 00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:39.180 But yeah, around that sort of time I was there going, I'm not sure 551 00:28:39.180 --> 00:28:40.980 quite sure what's happening. am I buying this? 552 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:43.259 I probably have to go back and rewatch it. 553 00:28:43.319 --> 00:28:45.900 You know, this is the one little area of the episode where I was a 554 00:28:45.900 --> 00:28:52.079 bit hazy on and then and then having, um, Mrs. Blood turn up and 555 00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:54.000 do a more of a student twist roll. 556 00:28:54.059 --> 00:28:58.200 I was, although, I was a bit like, I like the fact that Mrs. Fudd 557 00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.200 was just always on earth and commenting and being in everyday 558 00:29:01.200 --> 00:29:04.079 clothes and now she's something a bit different, although she did 559 00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:08.220 have a little iPad and was most pleased about the vindicator. 560 00:29:08.279 --> 00:29:09.000 I did like that line. 561 00:29:10.019 --> 00:29:11.880 I have a question. 562 00:29:12.180 --> 00:29:14.039 Who did it better? 563 00:29:14.099 --> 00:29:15.960 The well? 564 00:29:15.960 --> 00:29:19.019 Or sleep no more. 565 00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:24.420 So, because sleep no more, of course, ends in that same way 566 00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:26.700 doesn't it, with the creature escaping? 567 00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.480 I kind of like the end of sleep no more because the implication 568 00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:33.420 was that everyone watching the episode would die, that it was 569 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:37.140 actually going to kill us as the viewers because it was set up to 570 00:29:37.140 --> 00:29:37.440 do that. 571 00:29:37.500 --> 00:29:41.819 It was a message that was being encoded in the episode in the 572 00:29:41.819 --> 00:29:45.000 flashes of static that we had all spent the last 45 minutes 573 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:45.660 watching. 574 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.180 And it's a little bit like the moment where you learn that the 575 00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:51.000 Daleks are going to turn up on New Year's Day or whatever in the 576 00:29:51.000 --> 00:29:52.319 middle of Dalek Master Plan. 577 00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:54.720 You know, we've got a week and they'll be here. 578 00:29:54.900 --> 00:29:57.779 So you're threatening the audience is kind of good. 579 00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:02.819 I don't think that worked in a way. and I'm much less down on it 580 00:30:02.819 --> 00:30:03.660 than Brendan is. 581 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.380 I think this was a little bit more effective, I think. 582 00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:10.079 I think I've blocked all of sleep no more out. 583 00:30:10.140 --> 00:30:13.380 I just can't remember anything that happened in it, and I don't 584 00:30:13.380 --> 00:30:15.420 think I remembered much of this happening in a while I was 585 00:30:15.420 --> 00:30:15.900 watching it. 586 00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:20.519 But I like the ending of this episode without the reveal at the 587 00:30:20.519 --> 00:30:20.700 end. 588 00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:24.720 I liked that Shia took it into the well and threw it off with 589 00:30:24.720 --> 00:30:24.900 her. 590 00:30:25.019 --> 00:30:28.920 If nothing else, because that was then the reason for the well 591 00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:32.339 being in the plot, because actually it had been prefigured really 592 00:30:32.339 --> 00:30:32.700 heavily. 593 00:30:32.759 --> 00:30:35.819 It hadn't actually performed a function and then I thought that 594 00:30:35.819 --> 00:30:36.599 was quite neat. 595 00:30:36.660 --> 00:30:39.000 And I would have been quite happy without the little bit at the 596 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:39.240 end. 597 00:30:39.359 --> 00:30:40.859 There you go. 598 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:46.319 Um, I didn't have a problem with that anything because it, we do 599 00:30:46.319 --> 00:30:48.119 not know how that this creature works. 600 00:30:48.180 --> 00:30:52.079 We only know how the humans interpret this creature works, right? 601 00:30:52.140 --> 00:30:54.960 So, Is it killable? 602 00:30:55.019 --> 00:30:57.720 No, is it like, we don't know. 603 00:30:57.779 --> 00:31:03.480 Um, Like, we think it's been destroyed or at least wounded, but 604 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:05.099 the doctor runs back to see it. 605 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:07.859 So he delays delays their escape. 606 00:31:07.859 --> 00:31:12.000 And then he runs after her and delays their escape again. 607 00:31:12.059 --> 00:31:15.059 So is that monster running along? 608 00:31:15.059 --> 00:31:16.140 Because now it's free. 609 00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.059 She's committed suicide. 610 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:18.960 It's just free. 611 00:31:19.019 --> 00:31:20.220 You can do whatever the hell it wants. 612 00:31:20.279 --> 00:31:23.759 It's followed to him onto the ship and gone after them. 613 00:31:23.819 --> 00:31:24.960 That's how I read that. 614 00:31:25.500 --> 00:31:29.460 It's certainly true that its appearance on the ship is telling us 615 00:31:29.460 --> 00:31:32.400 that the humans have not deduced everything that's true about it 616 00:31:32.400 --> 00:31:35.099 that it doesn't operate according to the rules that we've worked 617 00:31:35.099 --> 00:31:35.460 out. 618 00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:37.019 And I think that's a good choice. 619 00:31:37.140 --> 00:31:39.240 Yeah, it's very, it's interesting. 620 00:31:39.299 --> 00:31:43.680 I don't know whether I, I, I really love all of that ambiguity 621 00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:44.700 perhaps at the end. 622 00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:49.319 But in the end, the whole thing is a package, I just thought was 623 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:54.240 solidly acted, solidly directed, executed just beautifully. 624 00:31:54.299 --> 00:31:56.519 You know, it's as good as last week's for me. 625 00:31:56.579 --> 00:31:57.960 It's it's that 9 out of 10. 626 00:31:58.200 --> 00:32:00.839 And I'm really happy with the way this season's going. 627 00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:04.680 So that's all the time we have for this week. 628 00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:11.220 I'm going to plug 500-year Diaries series 2, our 1st episode on 629 00:32:11.220 --> 00:32:15.720 the Dalek Invasion of Earth was released last Sunday, and this 630 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:20.759 upcoming Sunday, we're going to be following the 2nd coming of the 631 00:32:20.759 --> 00:32:23.579 cybermen in the moon base. 632 00:32:23.640 --> 00:32:25.440 So that'll be this Sunday. 633 00:32:25.500 --> 00:32:28.980 You can keep up with all of our Doctor Who podcasts on 634 00:32:28.980 --> 00:32:34.380 Flight3entirety.com on Blue Sky or FTE podcast on Mastodon if 635 00:32:34.380 --> 00:32:39.180 you're one of the dozen or so people that uses that social 636 00:32:39.180 --> 00:32:40.079 network. 637 00:32:40.140 --> 00:32:44.519 Meanwhile, untitled Star Trek Project continues unabated and you 638 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:50.039 can catch us most Fridays for episodes of Star Trek from across 639 00:32:50.039 --> 00:32:51.480 the history of the franchise. 640 00:32:51.539 --> 00:32:56.640 And if you download this week's episode of 500-year diary, I 641 00:32:56.640 --> 00:33:00.000 promise that there will be something there about what Brandon's 642 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:02.339 doing podcast wise in the show notes. 643 00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:08.160 So all that remains is for me to say, until next time, may Shooty 644 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:11.700 Gatois offer you the chance to walk the universe on his back. 645 00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:14.819 Thank you very much for listening and good night. 646 00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:15.900 Good night. 647 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:16.859 Good night. 648 00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:17.759 See you soon.