Hello, Delissa, and welcome back to the 2nd great and bountiful
Human Empire, the only Doctor Who Flashcast brought to you by
Shooty summoned a Hopeful Dentate Harbinger, um, Industries, or
something.
I'm Malice.
I mischief.
And I'm misery.
So shooting someone to Hopeful Dentate Harbinger is literally an
anagram of the 2nd grade and bountiful human Empire.
Well done.
Are you going to change?
are you going to change?
change the logo. for this episode.
Okay.
No, it's crazy.
You can if you want.
It's kind of unfortunate that the person who would appreciate that
most in the world.
Christopher Hamilton Bidmate will never, ever listen to this.
All right.
Let's just very quickly go round the table and talk about whether
we like this episode or not.
I'm going to put my cards on the table and say, I did.
I've enjoyed every episode this season.
It's a little bit hard to judge, of course, because it's a part
one.
What did you think, James?
Look, I loved it.
Like most of us, I'd heard the rumours.
Um, at all the fan speculation that Soutec was returning, uh, and
I'd said, oh, yeah, oh, yeah, like, wow, fans, fans be fans, like
we'll always speculate about anything.
Um, And so I was fully expecting it and then didn't actually
seriously actually expect it to happen.
Until the moment when you hear Gabriel Wolf's voice.
They're not going to do that.
And then he just cuts in over Susan Twist speech and I'm like, oh
that's, that's, that's Gabriel, oh, okay, okay, okay.
It was...
I just found it. like I I've watched it 2.5 times.
Brilliant.
I so watched a doctor episode.
In the 1st week after broadcast in a long time, nothing against
the series.
I've just been so, it was so, it was so fun.
It like had the fun of a Russell two-part season finale, which is
something we've not had for so long.
Um, it just, yeah, um, Yeah, I'm just going to stop gabbling now
and let Brendan, have you say?
Um, well, you've summed it up really well there.
It was, it was just immensely good, and I realised sort of two
thirds of the way through.
It has a lot of commonality with army of ghosts in terms of
structure and setting and even the sort of construction of the
cliffhanger.
But I realise sort of 2 thirds of the way through that it's a lot
of talking about what's been happening this season, what's going
on with the characters.
And I was still hooked.
You know, um, it's a feeling of growing dread rather than an
actual menace standing in the corner.
Um, and then sort of about halfway through you get, you start
getting actual physical menace.
Um, But yeah, I think, Everyone is just really great in it.
I'm wondering if Yasmin and Finney will get more to do next week.
Just because I think of all of all the cast, she's the only
character.
Rose is the only character who didn't really have a story or a
motivation this week.
But she was also there to give Ruby a mate.
And they had this immediate lovely girlfriend-y chemistry that I
really liked, especially because, you know, Russell used to build
on the idea of, oh, the companions are all jealous of each other
and here, like, Ruby is meeting loads of the doctor's old friends
and she's just like so thrilled to meet everyone.
It is such a lovely thing.
And then everyone gets along and starts working together.
I think my favourite moment of that part of the episode is when
the girls and Kate start fan curling over to be a McCall. yeah
she's nice.
She nice.
It's really cute.
I have to say that one of my very favourite episodes of this run
so far since November is the giggle.
And one of the things that I was most looking forward to was
seeing shooty in that new unit set up again, because, you know, it
was clearly being set up for the future.
I really liked it.
Like I just love that stupid skyscraper and the ridiculous
cantilevered Ellie pad and stuff.
And then Ibrahim, Colonel Ibrahim's back looking hot and just
they're all there and it's just really terrifically fun and I'm
just kind of happy to pass time with those people.
And I think, you know, we said the original Russell T. Davis era
expanding the kind of uh, regular cast into a sort of semi-regular
cast.
And here, you know, we've got Kate, we've got the hilarious and
delightful new scientific advisor who I think is adorable.
We have the links, you know, all of these things back, all of
these elements back that we were waiting for.
It's just terrific.
I love how he's always definitively the links.
Yes.
The links.
Do this.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I haven't read the novelisation of the giggle yet, but I
gather that somewhere, somewhere in there, it's like the links
does not have pronouns.
You refer to the links as the links and that's part of the links's
programming and personality.
Yeah, I loved Lenny Rush as Morris.
I was amazed to discover that Lenny is only 15 just from the
strength of the performance he gives.
And spoiler alert, Ruth Madely has been spotted filming next
year.
So you know, we haven't totally lost Shirley.
And and yeah, and even Harriet Harriet Arbinger, getting really
excited that she gets to analyse a videotape. working in TV myself
and having to have gone in to get archive stuff from tapes.
It is exciting.
But also the double meaning of that line in hindsight.
I was born for the, like I was born for this.
Yes, yes, you were.
You were actually born. to like push this plot forward through
this action.
Like, oh, yeah.
It was a really clever script.
Hmm, yeah, yeah.
Yeah, I think so too.
Well, so I think, you know, once we've kind of got in and
introduced ourselves to everyone and stuff, I think maybe the
central scene, because it is the legend of Ruby Sunday, is that
incredible scene in the time window, which again just gives shooty
so much acting to do, which looks amazing, just looks
astonishing.
You know, the videotape effects and stuff.
Is it done on the volume?
Is that what we think is happening?
No, no, it's a multiple projectors onto white cyclorama, cycle
rama.
Right.
So, yeah. like, yeah, like onto one, basically. projected, like
obviously very high resolution projectors and a number of them to
get it to look at sort of 3D. And obviously, the TARDIS is
physically there in some sense as well with effects over the top
of it, I think.
But and then they layer in like the snow and everything.
So yeah, like it, but it was practical.
Wow.
That is great.
What did you think of it, Brendan?
Oh, yeah, I absolutely loved that.
And I think there's an effort to evoke Japanese horror there
particularly the ring, but, you know, in the wake of the ring
we've also had, um, I believe the original was Spanish, but it
could have been done in Mexico, uh, wreck, the rec horror films
which are found footage horror films.
I did see an interesting opinion online and it was either from
friend of the podcast Kevin or someone responding to him saying it
feels like it was written to be scarier visually than it ended up
but possibly that that's as far as they could go with the found
footage horror ring sort of aesthetic.
But I think it really works.
And I found it unsettling.
So I imagine that the 10 or 12 year old at home is going to find
that scary as well.
It's the revelation that the CCTV camera is 66 metres away from
the mother, which is, of course, 73 yards.
And so that's probably why we can't see her face at any point.
And I'm hoping that sort of plays into it.
But, you know, it's very clever and no one in the show seems to
notice because I guess no one really knows.
No one remembers.
No, that's right.
Also, does that mean that Ruby's mother is Ruby?
Oh, she's a she's a grandfather paradox.
Could be, could be.
But um, yeah, I thought that was, that'd be kind of moffity
wouldn't it?
But so are some of the dialogue, you know, like Phoenix is just a
bird until it burns, was giving me serious Moffat vibes as well.
I think there's a lot that Russell's learnt from the long Moffat
era.
What did you think of that seeing James?
Look, I really enjoyed that scene.
Um, harking back to your point about the sort of building dread.
Throughout the episode.
That's where it really kind of kicks into into gear.
Uh, you know, like you've got, you've got this sort of setup of
this mystery and all this talk of traps, constantly reiterating.
This is, yeah, the, the, um, the likelihood of a trap is
increasing, you know, 95%, 97% kind of thing.
Um, But that sort of eerie, ghostly like landscape that they're
in.
The obvious emotional anguish that Ruby is in and the doctor's
emotion towards her because he cares about her and she's in pain.
Um, and then that moment where Colonel Jadetty disappears behind
the TARDIS and then all that stuff with, uh, where they finally
hear his voice and and it's, it's like, you know, I've been eaten
basically, like I've been swallowed by like this ancient being.
Like, you know, like, I mean, it's a trope.
That's an obvious trope.
The person has disappeared.
They've, they're dead, that they're talking to you from beyond the
grave.
God, that's howling.
It's muffin again too, I think.
Well, yes, yes, yeah.
He turned off the light.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
That's right Or, or, um, the stuff in the uh, the angels 2
parter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, Angel Bob.
Yeah, it's um, it is pretty good stuff.
I also think that, um, when Ruby's mother is, like, stops for a
bit and then she, she's crying and Carla says she's crying and and
Carla wants to reach out to her and and reassure her because we
already know that she's just a young woman, um, like in her, in
her 20s, it is Ruby, isn't it?
There's definitely...
Um, uh, yeah, and I thought that was super effective on top of um
shooty's responses and on top of the way that Kate is reacting, and
of course, merely, like it is like a scene that's emotional on all
sorts of levels and everyone gets the chance to really shine in
it.
I thought it was great and just visually stunning.
And then there's the wonderful moment where Carla recognises the
beast as well.
We're foreshadowing a little.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. that's pretty wild, isn't it?
All right.
So one person that we haven't mentioned, and she turns up
obviously, in the next scene, because we pretty much go from the
time window scene to Susan Twist's huge opening, and it's Mel, of
course.
And isn't it fantastic to see her back?
Oh, well, it's not going to be a surprise to any long-term
listeners that I was just so chuffed.
And of course, this appearance by Bonnie Ismel was the 1st thing
announced before she appeared in the giggle.
Right.
Okay, yeah.
You know, the giggle was a bit more surprising.
Whereas, yeah, all of Bonnie's pre-publicity was, oh, it's so
wonderful to work with Shooty.
Yeah, yeah, yeah You know, because they were odd location.
On location.
Exactly.
Yeah, yeah.
And yeah, it's so great to see her.
And it means because Mel is this just upright, honest character, we
immediately feel sympathy for Susan Triad.
And especially because Mel then says...
She's actually really lovely.
Yeah, it's funny, isn't it?
Because Mel is a character of pure cardboard in the 80s, you know
and she, she, there's a really quite a sort of sweet and touching
thing in the interview that she does in DWM where she says, I fear
I didn't do a very good job, which is terrible.
I'm mortified to think that she thinks that because she was
magnificent.
Showing good, good job by her.
Yeah, maybe that's it ending the point.
But there's enough there, just from the charm of her performances
Mel, and from the way the character was designed, that, you know
this is still definitely Mel, isn't it?
Yeah.
This is like Mel, you know, she's been through some stuff.
Um, oh, also the, the, the hinting at her origin as well.
And that's just the story that we obviously never saw.
Um, and what terrible thing happened to her parents?
Oh my god.
It's it's dark.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's super interesting, isn't it?
So it's adding a level to the character and like establishing that
she's an orphan, which I don't think was really, definitely
established in the, in the 1980s.
Well, you just never, she doesn't have anything apart from, she
was a computer programmer.
Yeah, yeah.
It was literally her character description, wasn't it?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, basically, basically.
I mean, frankly, being the 1980s in Doctor Who, she would be the
odd one out if she weren't an orphan.
Yeah, that's right.
Four orphans, that show.
All right.
So, Susan Triad comes in.
She does what is apparently a Teresa May dance.
I wasn't really aware of this, but that's what she's doing
according to the audio description as tweeted by Hannah, friend of
the podcast just a few moments before we started recording.
So that's bringing up some traumatic memories, I guess, for the
viewers in the UK.
What do we think generally of what's going on here with the with
the cliffhanger, James.
I think given the state of British politics, they're probably
remembering that Theresa made hands with affection at this point.
Exactly.
That deep, Richie Sunak, where we don't let the Prime Minister
into the, like, particularly not the Prime Minister, we don't let
the Elon Musk joke.
Yeah, the Elon Musk joke.
Yeah, yeah.
And you want to know something?
When was this shot?
Yeah, I don't know.
Because Rishi Sunak probably wasn't Prime Minister when this was
shot.
It works for all of them, really.
You know, and you've also got like a year before broadcast at
least.
Yeah, probably.
Like April last year, maybe?
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. because they they've just finished shooting um
shooting 2nd series.
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago.
But yeah, you also get a dig in there of, you know, we keep an eye
on all the tech billionaires and take down the ones using alien
tech well except for the obvious, but we're working on him.
Yeah.
So good.
But back to the climax.
Clifford, yeah.
Yeah.
Oh.
Oh my god.
Like someone, someone online made the, made the sort of caddish, um
but quite appetite joke about, um, Sutek.
Obviously, employing a graphic designer.
Um, to make sure that his return was um, as impactful as possible
and and and that, you know, like they'd really put in some effort
with, with anagrams.
Yeah, yeah.
So you take those comes now.
It's super weird.
Yeah.
But it doesn't think that they do at the end of Army, of course, or
less successfully the end of Aliens of London. the multiple like
the multiple cliffhanger thing where you've got our various uh
protagonists being threatened by by different but linked uh
menaces.
Um, and and everybody finding the information out at the same time
through different means, which is, uh, like, I think it was done
really well in this case.
And what do we think of, um, so you takes makeover, um, Brendan?
It's interesting because I really love it, you know, and for a
start, I think the makeup effects on Harriet and Susan are
incredibly effective.
Do you think they're trying to like hark back to Marcus Scarman?
Oh, absolutely.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And, you know, I like that each of them being a different sort of
function of Soutec, if you like, are given a different appearance
and a different look.
Um, Now, I've seen some complaints online about the CG jackal
Sutech.
I really like it, and I don't see anything wrong with it, and a
lot of people are saying they don't like it.
I have to wonder if it's a difference in TV settings and that's
not me saying to anyone, you've got your TV set up wrong.
I'm just saying it looked really good on mine.
Yeah, yeah.
No, I think it looks really effective.
It's got teeth.
You know, that was a very static rubber mask, which was effective
at the time and there are some moments where I think it looks
fantastic in Pyramids of Mars, which I think is a vastly overrated
story.
But I love that mask.
I love that mask.
You know, it's it's a papier machet mask.
Yeah.
You know, like on a stick.
Yeah.
Yes, yes, I don't think there's even a person there some of the
time.
Yeah.
It's very narrow hair.
Yeah, that's right.
But I think it looks great.
And it certainly, you know, back in the day when there are a lot
of puppets made out of terriers' heads, like the scarrison and
stuff.
So it's like being reminded of my old dog Gracie again when I look
at when I look at one of those and again tonight with a terrifying
the terrifying jackal head, which I think looks pretty great.
Yeah, so I think that's kind of fun.
And weird and, you know, the way it, uh, you know, wraps around
the TARDIS and doesn't seem to have a body and stuff.
It's all very strange.
Yeah, I mean, for me, it's sort of playing on the, the idea of a
like sleep paralysis demon, which people seem, seemingly
universally describe as a black shape at the end of your bed and
you know, just 2 glowing eyes, maybe a protruding face and that
sort of thing.
And then when Susan Twist is revealed as the agent of Su Tech, um
or what is it?
Scarman calls himself the emissary of Soutec and sort of throws
her head back.
That's like out of a Sam Raimi horror film.
You know, I think the references are being worn on the sleeve and
I really like it.
Now you, now you say that.
That dog.
Reminds me of the Gamork from Netflix story, which scared me
witless as a child.
I used to, just it had these glowing green eyes for most of the
film, it's just 2 glowing green eyes in the back of a cave, um, and
that just stuck with me and and often, you know, if I had watched
it, like I wouldn't be able to sleep because, you know, like the
night light in the corner would just be like, like the dog walked
away.
Yeah.
It's a great, you know, it's a, it's a great Muppet, but it's not
it's not anywhere near as convincing as just those glowing eyes
than I have a cable.
But yeah, scary dogs.
They're a thing of nightmares.
Mm.
So let's talk about where we think this is going.
Todd can't be here tonight, but he is particularly interested in
Mrs. Flood, I think.
Like he mentioned her and mentioned, um, Susan Twist, because of
course that just seems to have been a big kind of misdirect
doesn't it?
Despite having the all-important end of the teaser moment devoted
to it.
It doesn't seem to go anywhere.
What do we think of Mrs. Flood?
Well, she could be a Susan Christ.
Yes, I think she is.
I feel like she might actually be Susan.
Um, and she might be Ruby's mother.
So we talk about regeneration, remember?
Where, um, we talk about regeneration and regeneration is
something that you can do to escape death or to hide yourself
away.
And then when Mrs. Flood's in Cherry's bedroom, she's going, oh, or
just outside Cherry's bedroom, you know, putting her coat, hanging
her coat up.
She's hiding myself away and you kind of think, oh, okay.
All right.
That was very subtle.
So perhaps she's Susan.
But that moment where she just kind of, the, like, her bedroom
sort of darkens theatrically, like, Charlie's bedroom darkens
absolutely theatrically, and she's just looking at us and talking
about the storm coming on, is really great.
So good.
I think that Susan, as played by Carol Anne Ford, will be back
next week.
I'm nailing my colours to the master on that one.
I think that Mrs. Flood has a 1st name of something like Aria or
Allegra.
So she's Aria Flood.
Or to put it another way, river song.
Oh my god.
Projecting herself out of the library because just that line to
Cherry of, well, we all want a lot of things.
I can just hear Alex Kingston saying that.
And let us not forget, River song is a psychopath.
Okay.
Though, you know, big finish has given her body back in the next
box set.
Oh, my God, of course.
Modern technology, she gets to leave the library.
Or it's Clara because she is wearing Clara's outfit for
basically.
She is great.
Wow.
Okay.
Now, I will say, though, a thought that's just occurred to me is
that like the toy maker and maestro...
Mrs. Flood has broken the 4th wall twice now.
And so I have to wonder if she is another god of self
description.
I'm not a malicious one.
No, no.
Despite her scary teeth.
She's British.
Yeah, I guess so.
All right, I reckon there's one more thing that needs to be
crossed off the list before we wind up today, and that is Brendan
the sensor rights.
Tell us about it.
Okay.
So I will start from the, um, the least significant working my way
through.
So, of course, we get doctor on the bridge and um, the doctor
spends his, the 1st 2 episodes of the sensor rights on the bridge
of a spaceship.
Okay, yep.
But we also have stories that involve psychic control.
And a damaged TARDIS.
We have a character called Susan talking about orange skies and
dreaming of them.
Yeah.
We have a suspicion that Susan is being manipulated.
As well as threatening to give Susan some much needed character
development before deciding by the end of the story.
Nah.
But one, and I have to thank, I have to thank Peter for this
because in the group chat, he sort of brought up a possibility of
Mrs. Flood saying to Cherry Sunday.
Remember your family group?
sort of a threatening way.
And that just made me think of other dialogue from the sensor
right?
And the line that pops into my head with is I should imprison you
in some room wherein no light can shine and fill that room with
noise, which is rather like the time window.
Yeah, you know.
Um, but I think, I think for me, the, the biggest one there is, you
know, we have a story about psychic, uh, psychic control, and we
do have a damaged hardest that is significant, and also it's
presented as a threat with the sensor rights.
The censors are capable of this level of threat because they can
violate the TARDIS.
And same as SUTEC.
Are you going to put this theory to Russell on Instagram?
I may do because, God, listen, whenever I comment on one of
Russell's things.
He usually likes it.
And look, he could be liking every comment, but even so, even so
that takes effort and he's probably not liking the comments saying
what are you doing putting gayness in Doctor Who?
This has never happened before.
You've made it work.
Okay, listen, Doctor Who please.
All right.
Speaking of speaking of the keys of mariners.
Exactly.
Yes, Altos is looking a little bit chilly around the thighs, isn't
he?
All right.
So it's time for us to wind up, I think.
What about plugging things?
I can tell you that this Friday, untitled Star Trek project will
be releasing an episode on The Devil in the Dark, which is the
famous episode with the lava duvet.
It is an absolute classic of the original series, one of the best
one of the best episodes, I think, of the show's entire run, and
absolutely what Star Trek is about, though.
I love it to death.
So that's coming.
And we did Startling Barbara Payne and released it on the weekend
which was not an episode about a hopeful future of exploring
Strange New World so much as a miserable future of going to
Strange New World and killing everyone there, but nevertheless, we
enjoyed ourselves.
So that's uh, Voyager's Return, episode 6 of Startling Barbara
Bay.
Um, Brendan.
What do you want to plug?
I would like to plug the latest episode of the BJBJ game show on
the indie game, The Tourist, and also the latest episode of the
three-handed game where our new theme is The Cool War, and we are
starting with the new Avengers episode to catch a rat.
Brilliant.
James, do you have to plug anything?
I was going to plug startling up a bank for you.
You've already done that for me.
Okay.
That's fine.
All right.
Well, in that case, all that remains is for me to say, until next
time, you really should consider getting the car thoroughly
detailed, probably quite soon.
Thank you very much for listening and good night.
Good night.